Friendship is Dragons
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Page 1520 - Much Adieu
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Enjoy your break Newbie.
After this you definitely deserved it.
After this you definitely deserved it.
Petty revenge and deleting NPCs from a campaign?
One of my earliest D&D campaigns had a prince who became king over the course of the story. His father died of an assassination, his mother went into exile... he had it a little rough, but he was still a bit of a jerk guy to the PCs since the early campaign, even if they begrudgingly worked together against common foes.
So near the end of the campaign, the party defeated a green dragon inside a flying castle. They got the dragon's hoard and it included thousands of copper coins. It was too heavy to just cart out with them.
So the party flew the castle over the king's personal home and dumped several hundred pounds of copper coins on him to pay all the land back taxes the party owed from waaaay near the beginning. Now THAT was pretty revenge worth a pretty penny. XD
One of my earliest D&D campaigns had a prince who became king over the course of the story. His father died of an assassination, his mother went into exile... he had it a little rough, but he was still a bit of a jerk guy to the PCs since the early campaign, even if they begrudgingly worked together against common foes.
So near the end of the campaign, the party defeated a green dragon inside a flying castle. They got the dragon's hoard and it included thousands of copper coins. It was too heavy to just cart out with them.
So the party flew the castle over the king's personal home and dumped several hundred pounds of copper coins on him to pay all the land back taxes the party owed from waaaay near the beginning. Now THAT was pretty revenge worth a pretty penny. XD
And there it is again, that self-righteous attitude that makes me dislike this group more and more. The OUR way is superior and YOU don't get to enjoy yourself, because it's all about us and we automatically expect you to think like us and if you don't your an irredeemable jerk that needs to change or "be taught a lesson" how to do things "properly".
As I keep saying, I didn't get the impression that DiscordDM was a bad guy. He showed himself mindful of others (making sure that rarity was comfortable being alone with him) and gave the group several chances to bow out or change things if they didn't like how things were progressing (giving them the chance to self-determine how their curse unfurled following the labyrinth). It's just that noone actually bothered speaking up at any point and then everyone immediately started bitching the moment the guy turned his back and was unable to defend himself.
You just had this whole session devoted to figuring out that the best way to handle things is to talk things out and manage expectation, yet you immediately fall back on relying on some convoluted and hair-brained schemes to ... what actually? Teach someone a lesson becaus they don't play the game you do and you never actually talked with them about it? God these guys are pricks on an unprecedented level, all the while complaining about other and preaching about their own superiority -_-
As I keep saying, I didn't get the impression that DiscordDM was a bad guy. He showed himself mindful of others (making sure that rarity was comfortable being alone with him) and gave the group several chances to bow out or change things if they didn't like how things were progressing (giving them the chance to self-determine how their curse unfurled following the labyrinth). It's just that noone actually bothered speaking up at any point and then everyone immediately started bitching the moment the guy turned his back and was unable to defend himself.
You just had this whole session devoted to figuring out that the best way to handle things is to talk things out and manage expectation, yet you immediately fall back on relying on some convoluted and hair-brained schemes to ... what actually? Teach someone a lesson becaus they don't play the game you do and you never actually talked with them about it? God these guys are pricks on an unprecedented level, all the while complaining about other and preaching about their own superiority -_-
I know it's been a while since the original 'Return of Harmony' arc, but it was also well established back then that basically everything DiscorDM did was according to *CelestiaDM's* script for the session. DiscorDM was really nothing more than an actor in the play. An all powerful, reality warping actor, but nonetheless. CelestiaDM realized halfway through that their plan was a bad idea and no-one was having fun, and put a stop to it before it went too far; CelstiaDM rightfully took full responsibilities for that debacle.
Rainbow Dash being herself notwithstanding, I don't recall anyone being the self-righteous jerks over the incident like you are describing. Matter of fact, I also don't recall anyone specifically expressing any sort of grudge on DiscorDM for the events of that session, or anyone ever expressing that they didn't want him back. I'm afraid I'm quite baffled as to where you get such a harsh assessment of the group from.
Rainbow Dash being herself notwithstanding, I don't recall anyone being the self-righteous jerks over the incident like you are describing. Matter of fact, I also don't recall anyone specifically expressing any sort of grudge on DiscorDM for the events of that session, or anyone ever expressing that they didn't want him back. I'm afraid I'm quite baffled as to where you get such a harsh assessment of the group from.
I'm a little confused too. While Dash and AJ would prefer doing things their own way, the one with the actual scheme is Fluttershy, and she's proposing a compromise where everyone can enjoy the next session.
While the basic idea for Return of Harmony was the regular GM's, a lot of the plan was "unleash DiscorDM on the players", and there are several points where it's clear DiscorDM has changed the original script (at least once it's explicitly stated that DiscorDM and the regular GM have different notes for the session).
Yes, the regular GM correctly took responsibility for the mess that resulted, since it was all his idea originally, but he and the players have all hashed it out repeatedly, and had some group therapy from Cadance and Shining Armor. Everyone (except Rainbow) has expressed remorse for their actions, and they've come up with better strategies for dealing with group dynamics - finding ways all seven of them can get what they're looking for out of the game.
The exception is DiscorDM - he did what was asked of him, and he did leave a lot up to the players, so he's not entirely culpable, but he did also revel in his role, and ran with it beyond where the regular GM expected (toward the end of the arc, the regular GM is openly opposing DiscorDM). DiscorDM has never, on-panel, acknowledged their part in this, nor apologised for almost ruining their entire campaign - and also brushed off Flutter-player's attempt to apologise to him privately.
Here, Flutter-player's actively suggesting that they extend the lessons that they've learnt as a group to include DiscorDM - rather than bringing him back just to dunk on him, or to force him to come back for a session that he's not going to find any joy in, bring the character back to be defeated, yes, but in a way that the player/DM can enjoy and appreciate as well as the regular 7.
And, yes, you can interpret the end of this session as everyone teaming up to "punish" DiscorDM, but you can also interpret it as applying the lessons of the last few sessions - everyone needs to contirbute to the plan for the next big Discord arc, not so they can turn the tables on DiscorDM, but so that no-one feels ambushed by what happens, and so they can take advantage of the strengths of the players in planning, rather than putting everything on the regular GM.
Plus, while it wouldn't be for everyone, DiscorDM strikes me as someone who would actually appreciate being outplanned and out-thought by others, particularly if they then reveal that it was a group effort at the end - that it took all seven of them together to outsmart him, meaning he's still the smartest individually.
Ultimately, though, the biggest problem with DiscorDM is that he's never opened up on-panel, so we don't understand him or where he's coming from as much as we do the 7 main cast. Well, that and he brushed of Fluttter-player, which is a serious black mark...
Yes, the regular GM correctly took responsibility for the mess that resulted, since it was all his idea originally, but he and the players have all hashed it out repeatedly, and had some group therapy from Cadance and Shining Armor. Everyone (except Rainbow) has expressed remorse for their actions, and they've come up with better strategies for dealing with group dynamics - finding ways all seven of them can get what they're looking for out of the game.
The exception is DiscorDM - he did what was asked of him, and he did leave a lot up to the players, so he's not entirely culpable, but he did also revel in his role, and ran with it beyond where the regular GM expected (toward the end of the arc, the regular GM is openly opposing DiscorDM). DiscorDM has never, on-panel, acknowledged their part in this, nor apologised for almost ruining their entire campaign - and also brushed off Flutter-player's attempt to apologise to him privately.
Here, Flutter-player's actively suggesting that they extend the lessons that they've learnt as a group to include DiscorDM - rather than bringing him back just to dunk on him, or to force him to come back for a session that he's not going to find any joy in, bring the character back to be defeated, yes, but in a way that the player/DM can enjoy and appreciate as well as the regular 7.
And, yes, you can interpret the end of this session as everyone teaming up to "punish" DiscorDM, but you can also interpret it as applying the lessons of the last few sessions - everyone needs to contirbute to the plan for the next big Discord arc, not so they can turn the tables on DiscorDM, but so that no-one feels ambushed by what happens, and so they can take advantage of the strengths of the players in planning, rather than putting everything on the regular GM.
Plus, while it wouldn't be for everyone, DiscorDM strikes me as someone who would actually appreciate being outplanned and out-thought by others, particularly if they then reveal that it was a group effort at the end - that it took all seven of them together to outsmart him, meaning he's still the smartest individually.
Ultimately, though, the biggest problem with DiscorDM is that he's never opened up on-panel, so we don't understand him or where he's coming from as much as we do the 7 main cast. Well, that and he brushed of Fluttter-player, which is a serious black mark...
This might be my favorite take on this. Thanks for contributing it!
That's basically what I thought as well, though you put it way more eloquently than I ever could.
Yeah, I've been thinking about this and I agree. The impression I got wasn't that they were planning to orbital friendship cannon Discord DM into playing their way, The Only Correct Way. The big problem with Discord DM was that he came into their game and stuck to his preferred play style, even when his players were clearly unhappy with how the game was going (speaking as a DM, if one of my players would only do a scene with me through a locked door, I would be dropping character *so fast* to check in and make sure we could do the game in a way that would be comfortable for them, even if it messed up my plans). Whereas the players, as I'm reading it, are teaming up in order to figure out a way to play in their preferred style while still making the game fun and welcoming to Discord DM.
Because phew, I would not want to navigate a game in which I'm trying to be kind to someone I had friction with last time but with whom my character still has to be actively hostile.
Because phew, I would not want to navigate a game in which I'm trying to be kind to someone I had friction with last time but with whom my character still has to be actively hostile.
Myeah, my opinion in the matter is that the whole Discord thing was kind of a "not so good" idea from the DM that was poorly executed. It can be tricky bringing someone new at an established table. Most of the time, it goes well because it's usually another player, who's on the same level of the rest of the table, but in this case, not only the players weren't informed about the sudden addition, but Discord was given DM priviledge and pretty much free reign over the session. You don't spring that on your players without talking it out beforehand.
To top it off, Discord was playing mind games with the players, which is something you should also discuss with them to see if they're fine with it. And Discord wasn't as cool cucumber as you seem to make him out to be. Remember that when Fluttershy pointed out his methods and how that didn't really sit well with her, he lost his temper and left frustrated. The DM was chasing after her "ideal" that is embodied by Discord, but never really considered checking with her table if everybody was fine going that way. The "let's discuss things out" that is happening now is a nice thing, but that should have happened loooong ago.
In contrast, Cadenza handled playing a villain better mostly because, unlike discord, she checked several time with the player to make sure they didn't take any of it personally and were fine with how things were developping. If they all discussed the discord thing before bringing him to the table, they might have been more open to his way of pushing things on them. Maybe they would have even said clearly they weren't comfortable with that stuff and then saved them all, Discord included, some frustration.
Roleplaying is all about communication. It's important to remember that the communication needs to happen oocly as well.
And yeah, when the majority of the table likes to play one way, it's never a good idea to bring a new player that is pretty much the opposite of them and expect them all to accomodate. :p
To top it off, Discord was playing mind games with the players, which is something you should also discuss with them to see if they're fine with it. And Discord wasn't as cool cucumber as you seem to make him out to be. Remember that when Fluttershy pointed out his methods and how that didn't really sit well with her, he lost his temper and left frustrated. The DM was chasing after her "ideal" that is embodied by Discord, but never really considered checking with her table if everybody was fine going that way. The "let's discuss things out" that is happening now is a nice thing, but that should have happened loooong ago.
In contrast, Cadenza handled playing a villain better mostly because, unlike discord, she checked several time with the player to make sure they didn't take any of it personally and were fine with how things were developping. If they all discussed the discord thing before bringing him to the table, they might have been more open to his way of pushing things on them. Maybe they would have even said clearly they weren't comfortable with that stuff and then saved them all, Discord included, some frustration.
Roleplaying is all about communication. It's important to remember that the communication needs to happen oocly as well.
And yeah, when the majority of the table likes to play one way, it's never a good idea to bring a new player that is pretty much the opposite of them and expect them all to accomodate. :p
I am quite intrigued at how you're using Fluttershy as Discord's friend/advocate from the show and importing it to this setting.
Especially since she was the one who seemed to genuinely frustrate them at the point Fluttershy's turning when she correctly called out that the plan was to twist whatever Fluttershy said to make her lose her element. Discord DM seemed to think they were playing to the player's strengths--give the RPers the roleplay of a lifetime, give Twi's player a really hard puzzle, and so on--but they were also, perhaps unintentionally, playing on cracks in the group that made the whole thing less fun.
Discord DM can have good ideas and can roleplay well. It's the execution that perhaps needed work.
Discord DM can have good ideas and can roleplay well. It's the execution that perhaps needed work.
This really feels like a show-inspired take on a D&D group. I know that's an obvious thing to say, you've just...done a good job of realizing that. You've come a long way. The characters have come a long way! It will be interesting to see the next arc...after some guest comics and a break, of course. =)
What's next? I dunno, but I need a break. Thankfully, some generous guests have contributed some interesting guest comics to tide you over during my comic-making sabbatical.
Have fun, and see you in a month or so!
In the meantime, enjoy our latest Spudventure! The title... does not do this wild session justice.
Ironclaw Infiltrators, Session 3 - No One Is in Control Here: Podcast | Video