Page 1216 - Demanding Nicely

4th May 2019, 6:00 AM in School Raze
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Demanding Nicely
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Author Notes:

Newbiespud 4th May 2019, 6:00 AM edit delete
Sometimes you hear a line from the show and the joke just writes itself.


Anon 4th May 2019, 6:06 AM edit delete reply
Natural 20s on ability checks aren't a thing in 5e.
Guest 4th May 2019, 6:12 AM edit delete reply
Um, yes? They are? They’re not necessarily an auto success; for example if you roll a nat 20 on perception but have a negative Wisdom modifier, you could still end up failing the check if the enemy rolls high enough. But there is absolutely nothing preventing you from rolling a Nat 20
Jannard 4th May 2019, 6:42 AM edit delete reply
Of course you can roll a Nat 20, technically, as long as you only mean "rolling 20 on the die", which is kinda obvious because it's not like the die loses a face.

In practice, "Nat 20" on an ability check is "I rolled 20 and now add my modifiers", which means you are (usually) still expected to communicate your final result. I think that's what Anon might have been hinting at by pointing it out.
Emptybee 4th May 2019, 6:55 AM edit delete reply
And or course, since rolling a 20 is the absolute best you can do, any GM who calls for a die roll when a 20 won't succeed is a jerk.
you know that guy 4th May 2019, 7:46 AM edit delete reply
True, assuming you're the only player and the GM knows your stats.
Pablo360 4th May 2019, 9:57 AM edit delete reply
Actually, it's common practice to call for rolls when your players ask to do something ridiculous with a natural 20 representing a mitigated success, especially if you don't want to give away that something is impossible.
Dragonflight 4th May 2019, 11:32 PM edit delete reply
That works with any game, really. I was in a Mekton game a long time ago, for instance. We were attempting to stop an alien race from stealing the lost human super-battleship (this is mekton, after all.)

They were in a combat dropship, and had a substantial lead on us, and would almost certainly reach the command area first. We were all in mecha with booster rockets attached to our backs. Lacking any other means of stopping them, I told the GM that I would uncouple the rocket and use it as a dumbfire missile to knock the alien ship off course, and buy us a better chance against them.

The GM just sort of gave me this *look* and said there was no point calculating how impossible this was. I needed a critical success to do this, and no matter what happened, I would get to the fight last, having decoupled my booster rocket.

I agreed, and rolled percentiles. I rolled a critical hit on a random roll. The GM just snickered, and said that the bad guys get their dropship hit by this giant booster rocket that flew drunkenly across the battlefield to hit their dropship and knock them off course. They still got to the ship first, and we still had a fight on our hands. But it wasn't a mad rush to the command deck.

A good GM will roll with stuff like that, especially when the dice roll in the players' favour.
DeS_Tructive 7th May 2019, 9:28 AM edit delete reply
I agree.
Storyteller (nwod) has this as a "chance roll". No matter what the odds, you can always go for a 10% chance of minimal success. If you use the (optional) botch rules, you also have a 10% chance for a critical failure, though.
Anon 4th May 2019, 8:28 AM edit delete reply
Yes of course you can still roll at 20 on the dice, but exclaiming "Oh! Natural 20!" isn't helpful since it doesn't do anything special in 5e, you're only after the total. This lap in rules knowledge is continued by Twilight saying no one else would beat that, when that's absolutely possible. Barbarians typically don't focus on Wisdow, so say Fluttershy got a 20+1=21. Anyone with a wis mod of 3 can still beat her by rolling 19.

"Natural 20s" don't do anything special on ability checks in 5e.
Draxynnic 4th May 2019, 8:40 AM edit delete reply
I don't think they did on skill checks or ability checks in earlier editions either. It's just attack rolls and saves where natural 1s and 20s mattered, since there are no certainties in combat. (But there certainly is "you are not strong enough", "this is beyond your ability", and so on with skill and ability checks.)
Ramsus 4th May 2019, 11:38 PM edit delete reply
Actually it's only attack rolls and death saving throws. Natural 1s and 20s don't have any special effects on regular saving throws.
terrycloth 6th May 2019, 10:54 AM edit delete reply
There were optional rules in some versions for critical successes and failures on skill checks and saves. Don't know how many people used them.
Lethologica 4th May 2019, 9:47 AM edit delete reply
Twilight doesn't say no one else CAN beat Yona, only that she doesn't think anyone WILL. The phrasing indicates that Twi does recognize that a nat 20 isn't auto-success in 5e, since there is no such thing as beating an auto-success.
Jannard 4th May 2019, 6:49 AM edit delete reply
True, but if Flutter just said "I got a 24" it could've just meant she was also purpose-built to detect, so it may have needed additional clarification to make Dash' response meaningful. I think the "oh! Naural 20" was in service to the joke, more than her believing she got a crit success. That is supported by the fact that Dash thought she could beat her by numbers alone (which isn't possible if crit successes are a thing).
Anonymous 4th May 2019, 8:49 AM edit delete reply
I think I recall seeing them as a rule variant in the PHB. Or maybe the DMG. And there's always house rules, too. I know my 5e group seems to have critical successes, though not crit fails.
Guest 4th May 2019, 11:36 AM edit delete reply
Considering that Dash's player proceeded to act as though she had a chance to beat it, that means it wasn't an auto success, just a very high roll.

Since 5e doesn't have skill points, its not hard to assume that any player who doesn't have an outstanding wisdom or other bonus isn't going to beat another player who got a 20, since most of the bonus is proficiency, which we can assume a barbarian would have since they don't have many great options.

Assuming the DM knows she's proficient, saying the roll is helpful enough to know that it passes the DC, while Dash's player might still be able to beat it should she have a better bonus.

The real issue here is that this should have been passive perception, not a roll.
Jannard 4th May 2019, 11:56 AM edit delete reply
Ah, now you're addressing the actual elephant in the room!
Digo 4th May 2019, 5:57 PM edit delete reply
It would have been addressed sooner if people noticed it earlier. ;)
Jannard 7th May 2019, 5:38 AM edit delete reply
wink wink nudge nudge
Balrighty 4th May 2019, 6:08 AM edit delete reply
"I'm purpose-built for nevermind"? Oh, Gallus, your's is a pain we feel all too often.
andreas002 4th May 2019, 6:28 AM edit delete reply
My Pathfinder Wizard was built to always go first, with +11 on initiative at level 1.

I rolled Nat 1s and 2s on Init more often than 10+.
Mykin 4th May 2019, 8:21 AM edit delete reply
I know your pain.
Jannard 4th May 2019, 6:45 AM edit delete reply
"This is it, my moment of glory, where I show all I'm good for, my ridiculously specific specialty, I drop all I have into this one att-aaand it's a fumble".
ANW 4th May 2019, 6:45 AM edit delete reply
Solitary Performance, I got a deal for you.
*hands a blank piece of paper and a pen*
All you have to do is sign the paper, and you'll get your fantasy prize for winning the contest.

That's right, you won.
One signature for one prize.
Wulfraed 4th May 2019, 7:40 AM edit delete reply
"This pen is dry!"

"Oh? Well, here, just prick your finger and dip the pen in the blood, that will do just fine"