Page 820 - Unsolicited Criticism

22nd Oct 2016, 6:00 AM
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Unsolicited Criticism
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Newbiespud 22nd Oct 2016, 6:00 AM edit delete
Newbiespud
In this wonderful show-age of epic villains and reformed villains and whatnot, it's kind of crazy to remember that Gilda was essentially the second "villain" of the show. Immediately followed and overshadowed by The Great and Powerful Trixie (and then a freaking dragon after that), but still. Of the starting lineup, Gilda used to be the biggest punching-bag character because of a scene like this.

42 Comments:

ANW 22nd Oct 2016, 6:05 AM edit delete reply
So thus is her true colors.
Story Time
Has your group ever ended up with a bully in your group?
Kereminde 22nd Oct 2016, 6:30 AM edit delete reply
Well, a bully and a cheater who found it amusing to sell out a rogue to the city guard for the fun of it.
Gdesign95 22nd Oct 2016, 6:38 AM edit delete reply
yes I kicked him out by just conveniently forgetting to send him a reminder as to the time we would meet next. I have no tolerance for people saying there is a "best" way to play sure other ways may be sub-optimal but that is the point to have a fun character you feel like you can play not a, as pinkie put it, BARD-Bot Type G. I have no problem if you want to play that but insisting others conform to your idea of the game is something I never allow.

as a GM my first priority is to keep everyone having fun not to run a video game.
KIra 22nd Oct 2016, 8:40 AM edit delete reply
All alignments aside from Neutral would have a reason to throw a rogue into prison.

I'm assuming he was either a dick about it or didin't even discuss the action before hand.
Kereminde 25th Oct 2016, 4:47 AM edit delete reply
@Kira:

It's a lot more complicated than that, but the party rogue was sneaking around a noble's estate the rest of the party was headed for . . . looking for evidence there was something up, so the party could then arrest the noble on the spot. Everyone there was aware of the plan both IC and OOC; the rest of the party was going to arrive with the guard captain (who had said he had an inside man looking into the matter).

There was a quick aside of combat as the rogue had an estate guard notice him but get caught flat-footed on initiative and a Sneak Attack for subdual knocked him out with almost maximum amount of damage - which was more than one of the other players (pure warrior) could do.

So when the rogue came to the party trying to deliver the evidence, the warrior drew down and insisted "the intruder" be arrested. To try to save the plan, the guard captain hesitated, then had the rogue put in chains after a brief scuffle. Then the warrior "offered" to escort some of the guards who arrived as choreographed backup with the prisoner, and tried to kill the rogue.

Which resulted in the rogue almost escaping, as he made two hidden weapon checks (one for lockpicks), a lockpick check to get out of the restraints, then three checks to climb the wall during combat . . . but failed the last one to clear the wall safely and took falling damage enough to almost bleed out on the other side of the wall.

The warrior made it permanent after catching up.
Dusk Raven 1st Nov 2016, 12:47 PM edit delete reply
@KIra: Alignments don't have reasons to throw a rogue in jail, with the exceptions of the Lawful alignments and even then there are reasons to not throw him in jail. People on the other hand, can have reasons, and can also try to use their alignment to excuse their actions.
Specter 22nd Oct 2016, 3:14 PM edit delete reply
Specter
I once got kicked from a group (with one other person) and I was the DM.

DMing for a group of combat oriented adventurers isn't that hard, that much I will say. DMing for a group of combat oriented adventurers and one RP knight? Yeah, some problems.

After five sessions the group got into this system of accepting a quest, killing a problem, and returning for their hard earned wealth. The knight would take about ten to fifteen minutes going through the town and trying to find better quests, or two minutes after the quest trying to get bigger rewards (all for the group). One of the other players got fed up with his 'antics' and told him off about wasting time (says a player who level's up their character at the table when the session starts). The group as a whole started one siding the knight for how awful they made their character on top of that.

Next session, I force them through the intrigue heavy session of politics and high society. Part way through when half the party is nearly killed from a retinue of armed guards they demanded an explanation of why I am destroying their game. Answer, "MY games are designed with one thing in mind, everyone has fun. I do not tolerate the berating and insulting of fellow players. I will play by the rules of the game to make your lives a nightmare if you do. Have fun."

The next week the store owner said I was moved to a different group because the original group said the adventurer/DM relationship was 'too differing'. Fair enough.
Digo Dragon 24th Oct 2016, 4:49 AM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
Sure, lots of times. Probably still have them in there somewhere. :3
redwings1340 24th Oct 2016, 7:12 PM edit delete reply
redwings1340
Oh boy...

Well, I'm just going to say we have a lot of well intentioned players who play different ways, have very different experiences, and often have conflicts based on these different experiences and personalities. We're working on it, and things have been pretty good overall for a while now though.
Digo Dragon 25th Oct 2016, 5:09 AM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
Yeah, I think different play-styles is the explanation of most of the conflicts found in my games.
FanOfMostEverything 22nd Oct 2016, 6:20 AM edit delete reply
Given that everyone's gathered around the same table (or so I assume,) I suspect the group's going to turn on Gilda pretty darn quick.
Guest 22nd Oct 2016, 10:42 AM edit delete reply
You said more in silence than I think even you would have dared to say out loud.
Digo Dragon 24th Oct 2016, 4:52 AM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
Yeah, the silence is used really well in those panels. Everything you need to know purely on facial expressions. :D
Kaze Koichi 22nd Oct 2016, 11:53 AM edit delete reply
Sadly, such people do exist, and they are as annoying as it looks. One time we were playing WOD: Werewolves, and I was making a jager with wolk-kins. And that guy said to me: "Dude, you if you are picking kins, you should have human-kins, they give nice social stuff." I mentioned that jager that spends most of the time in the woods isn't that much of a social time. And he was: "Dude, you don't understand. Look how much benefits you can have: money, conections, etc..." It took time to shut his down, and the kicker: he wasn't even playing with us.
To be fair, I did accepted some advices from fellow party members on building this character - but that were advices that didn't break the character's consept.
Tempestfury 22nd Oct 2016, 1:54 PM edit delete reply
There is a fine line between advice, and 'suggestions'. Can be hard to tread the line between fluff and optimization.
Amanda M 22nd Oct 2016, 2:46 PM edit delete reply
Our group has a concept called "Sarah Chasing" because of Robbie's Changeling character some years ago. Sarah Chase was a canine-based Changeling who became a detective when she escaped Arcadia, and he never used any XP when he got it. She was hilariously underpowered, but still an ass-kicker because we were more into RP than combat. But even now, playing D&D, my cleric refuses to use her insane overkill powers because doggone it, she's a LIFE cleric! (Which made it all the more satisfying when a party member was killed by a Legendary beastie, and she absolutely -lost it-, going full Dark Phoenix on the thing and taking it from half HP to zero with a well-placed Flame Strike.)

Sometimes purposefully underpowering yourself makes for a more fun game!! :D
Someone 22nd Oct 2016, 3:09 PM edit delete reply
To be fair, with nWoD's power levels, even if there was more dice rolling involved, I'm pretty sure one could still breeze through on a character straight outta chargen.
Specter 22nd Oct 2016, 3:18 PM edit delete reply
Specter
My responses to any question that sounds like "Why did you pick [better feat/ability] over [weaker feat/ability]?"

Too cheesy. Not practical enough. Couldn't think of a reason to get it. I flipped a coin on it.
Aohaku 22nd Oct 2016, 3:44 PM edit delete reply
She pressed the Fluttershy button.
She shouldn't 'a did that.

I fear I may have been, if not this type of bully, something of the same vein at one time. Long story short, I was fed up with a specific player's playstyle and got into an alignment argument (classy, I know). The person had listed themselves as Chaotic Good and I basically lambasted them for never having their character be anything but a selfish, bloodknight prick. Suffice it to say, the campaign ended there.
Cyborg7221 22nd Oct 2016, 8:08 PM edit delete reply
Okay, I'm just gonna come out and say it: Fluttershy shouldn't be a Sentinel. She said herself that she "couldn't settle for just one" animal friend, and that's exactly what the Protector/Summoner druid does: summon from a list of animals to help in a fight. These beasties range from bears and snakes to dragons and basilisks, based on level. It's pretty neat, and I think would fit Fluttershy's character more. The only downside? No Wilderness Knacks, sacrificing Animal Empathy. It would net her some nice cantrip-like nature spells, though.
Although, one thing she could do is be a Sentinel, but take Summoner dailies out of Primal Power. I guess that would scratch both itches...
you know that guy 22nd Oct 2016, 9:48 PM edit delete reply
No Animal Empathy would explain why she's so bad with animals in UFP.
Seido 22nd Oct 2016, 9:44 PM edit delete reply
Question: Are they still using 4th edition? Or are they transitioning to 5th. Kinda lost on that part.
you know that guy 22nd Oct 2016, 9:49 PM edit delete reply
Still using 4th
Nickel Storm 23rd Oct 2016, 9:58 AM edit delete reply
I had a 4e bard. He didn't fall into any of the roles G said.
Story time here: His name was originally Garble Snotspill and he was a goblin who wanted to be a gnome. He got his wish at the end of a story and was transformed into a gnome by the Summer Queen and renamed himself Darnell Silvertongue.

His role in the party was leader, by that I mean that on his turn it was everyone's turn. He tossed out free actions of various kinds and even gave himself an extra turn just to do more of the same. Combine this with his ridiculously high initiative and most monsters never had a chance.

Highlight moment was when he was fighting in an arena match alongside our barbarian versus a rather nasty monster. On one round all I had left to do was a basic at will insult attack so he called the monster ugly(He always just said "You're Ugly" for that attack) to no great effect and one of the spectators heckled him for his poor insult for which Garble(at the time) called the spectator ugly too. The spectator, being a minion, promptly exploded. The crowed fell silent and my little goblin bard just raised his hands and said "Anyone else?".
Atarlost 23rd Oct 2016, 12:46 PM edit delete reply
Um, You've just described a buffing bard. Extra actions are quite a solid buff.
Nickel Storm 23rd Oct 2016, 9:54 PM edit delete reply
There is a difference between giving bonuses and breaking the action economy.
Vinom 24th Oct 2016, 9:01 AM edit delete reply
Tell that to 3.0 Haste.
Digo Dragon 25th Oct 2016, 5:09 AM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
Shadowrun's crazy Initiative Pass system comes to mind as well.
Imrix 23rd Oct 2016, 10:09 AM edit delete reply
Maybe it's just that I've never truly met a player like this, but to be honest? I blame Rainbow Dash.

Gilda is clearly a combat-heavy player who's come to the table expecting, from what her friend has told her, that this is her sort of campaign - albeit with a surface-level twist. She said as much outright back in 812 - Tangled Webs.

Notably, nobody has set her straight on this, even when she's clearly not enjoying the idea of weaving Rainbow's birthday into the game itself.

I mean let's be honest, the only reason this is even a problem is that Gilda is doing this /now/ rather than five or six panels ago during the character rebuilding session she sparked, which was presented in- and out-of-universe as a good thing.

She's being a jerk, yeah, but it seems to me that it's less because she's a bad person and more that this just isn't her kind of game - and SHE'S the one who's made all reasonable efforts to make clear what kind of game she both prefers, and thinks this is.
Trotter 23rd Oct 2016, 11:30 AM edit delete reply
While I can agree with you that SOMEONE should be telling G what sort of game they've actually got going on, it still doesn't justify her attitude. Even in a combat heavy game, you don't HAVE to be anything in particular. And while the first rebuilding bit may have been alright, the current one that's been going on is fully portrayed as bad.

Altogether while she's misinformed, it doesn't make her any less of a jerk to the rest of the group. Hell, she's flatout said she isn't gonna join, which makes her even more of a jerk. Even though she's not sticking around, she has to force everyone else to follow her standards for this one time where SHE is the guest. Not only is she a jerk, but she's also rude and treating the group's hospitality as utter garbage.
Robin Bobcat 23rd Oct 2016, 11:02 AM edit delete reply
Ahh yes.. The Alpha Gamer. The guy (and it's usually a guy, when it's not a griffon) who knows the game, and is focused on optimal play, and are quite willing to sit there and *tell* the other players how to play. I had one fellow who went so far as to *move other people's minis for them* and tell them to use a specific ability.

Then there was the absolutely foul-mouthed misogynist, who would complain bitterly abut how women have everything so easy because breasts. Yeah.

That said, the question was about *bullies*. Yeah, I've had to deal with those. It was a large Changeling game. They were playing it like a Vampire game. They had formed their own little cabal, complete with a pet narrator who would basically go along with whatever they said.

The game went from about *eighty* players to less than a dozen within three months because of them. We formed a new game. It went much better. Fun was had.
Atarlost 23rd Oct 2016, 1:50 PM edit delete reply
I don't know 4e, but if it's anything like 3.5 or Pathfinder there are player options that should never be used and they're usually noob traps. like single classing most classes in 3.5 or most archetypes in Pathfinder.

You should never take an archetype for flavor in Pathfinder. Most flavor archetypes actively make you worse at performing the role they're allegedly for or trade out a key combat ability that puts the class within Pathfinder's balance parameters for something that turns out to be useless.

Friends don't let friends play badly written kits. It'll only lead to disappointment.

It doesn't help that we can't hear Glinda's intonation and I can't read griffin facial expressions very well. "Ooookay" can mean the next statement is biting sarcasm or it can be just another voiced pause while Glinda figures out what to say.

"If you're sure" is a reasonable response to glass cannons, high paperwork builds, powerful but difficult to use Vancian multitool builds, or builds that work but are frequently reported as un-fun (eg. healbots) as well as actual bad builds. 4e doesn't have vancian multitool builds, but I assume it has all the others. IIRC Sentinel was said to be pet focused in the rebuilding strip and by some standards any pet build is high paperwork. If the pet becomes uncontrolled if the druid goes down it's also probably a bit of a glass cannon.
Kira 23rd Oct 2016, 2:13 PM edit delete reply
Second line your already wrong.

Some Archtypes are garbage yes.
Some actually do what they set out to and saying otherwise is misleading.

"Noob Traps" only exist if you let them EG play your character your way and don't worry about a bit of unoptomization.

I played a WyrmSniper Gunslinger and I was the most popular kid in the group why? because i picked an archtype no one thought was any good ran with it stayed in character and got stronk.

If i didin't have to 1v1 a kyton augur (random monsters are a bitch) he would still be alive and being awesome.
Cyborg7221 23rd Oct 2016, 6:01 PM edit delete reply
Actually, 4e totally has vancian multitool builds. If your wizard collects enough different Wands and Tomes, spends feats to multiclass Psion for Shaper talents, and hybrids Cosmic Sorcerer for the passive Soul of the Cosmic Cycle features... watch out, cuz' you'll probably have more powers and abilities than you can keep track of.
SRP 24th Oct 2016, 11:39 AM edit delete reply
Regarding the misogynist: A male member of the group wearing fake breasts and trying to get special favors from him would have been interesting to watch. :D
CrowMagnon 25th Oct 2016, 6:52 PM edit delete reply
I've been playing a single-class Alchemist with the Chirurgeon archetype. No complaints from either myself or my teammates.

And in my group's next adventure path, I plan on playing a Constable-archetyped Cavalier, despite the whinging of my DM's optimizer friends. Because it fits the theme of the AP we're going into, and I'd rather focus on building around a character concept than on optimizing the perfect stat-beast.
RuneKnight3 24th Oct 2016, 12:04 AM edit delete reply
To be fair in some game systems there are things that work and things that don't, and there are ways to make things that don't work function well with roleplay. Unfortunately I have met a lot of GM's who when presented with mechanics they don't understand shut them down, and then when someone comes by with the answer they don't want to hear it.

Gilda wanting to help people make better characters is not the fault here. It's coming into an existent game and trying to force the player dynamic to conform to her specific subjective ideas. But then again, as someone said, she should have been filled in well before this point.
Andorxor 24th Oct 2016, 4:29 AM edit delete reply
She probable was informed.Her gift for Dash is her remodeling the group into something she thinks Dash enjoys more.
Digo Dragon 24th Oct 2016, 5:11 AM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
The Great & Powerful Trixie always overshadows. ;)

Speaking of my favorite pony, when I RP'd as Trixie for that super-heroic campaign years back, I think if I were to play her again I would build her magic abilities differently.

See, we used GURPS 4e then and it's a nice, flexible system for just about any genre you want (as long as you're okay with a little math). The trouble I always had with 4e is that the magic system is just a series of skills with progressing prerequisites. So there isn't a lot of variety to how you'd like your spells to work. Fireball goes 'poof' and things catch fire. Damage is just a direct result of the amount of energy you throw behind it.

What I would do differently is build Trixie's magic tricks as powers. You can model a lot of different abilities using GURPS, and one thing especially useful is building powers with several traits that are exclusive to one another. For example, a kinetic attack that can do either armor piercing damage or extra damage after armor is factored. Useful in modeling something like a gun with two different ammo types, right? Yeah, stuff like that would be interesting. Trixie's "Unicorn telekinesis" was made as a power and functioned nearly identical to the show proper. Should of done the same with her pyrotechnics and miniature lightning bolts. :3

If there's a next time, I'm prepared!
Captain_Boxers 24th Oct 2016, 5:29 AM edit delete reply
My case is a bit weird since we've got a definite alpha gamer, but he is not a bully and does like RP. He's legit trying to help when he lectures on how to optimize your character. He also doesn't badger you about changing if you explain to him why you don't want a particular skill. He'll be confused, but accept that it's how you want to build your character.
Jennifer 24th Oct 2016, 6:46 AM edit delete reply
Honestly, at this point I'm still not sure she's a bully - she may just be socially awkward. I know I am - I'm exceedingly good at saying the wrong thing and getting off on the wrong foot. What stops me from doing it these days is that I haven't played crunchy games in ages and I've learned from experience to let people play as they like and adjust the game to suit.
setokayba 24th Oct 2016, 8:45 PM edit delete reply
setokayba
Why suddenly I can imagine a episode in season 7 about the dragon of Dragonshy being 'reformed'?