Page 86 - Laissez Faire

23rd Feb 2012, 6:00 AM
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Laissez Faire
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Newbiespud 23rd Feb 2012, 6:00 AM edit delete
Newbiespud
In this page's comments, tell a story about alignment shift - a character changing alignments mid-campaign in response to an event or a combination of events.

93 Comments:

Derpmind 23rd Feb 2012, 6:08 AM edit delete reply
Rarity is such a drama queen... and in the game too.
Jet 23rd Feb 2012, 6:10 AM edit delete reply
Wait, does that mean that Rarity is now neutral? Fine with me, fits her way better.
sun tzu 23rd Feb 2012, 6:24 AM edit delete reply
A fairly MILD shift, but...
Exalted campaign. Solar game. I played a (somewhat inspired by Kamina from TTGL) warrior whose schtick involved, in large part, being a crazy awesome Chaotic Good dude. Consistently did the right and selfless thing, but was always acting on a whim. Impulsive guy.
Then, as he gradually realized how EASILY a Solar like him could achieve his objectives and change the world, it occurred to him that his actions, one way or another, were going to have massive impact on countless people. That led him down a "with great power comes great responsibility" route, as he tried to be more responsible, get himself some real education (starting with learning how to read) so he could make informed decisions, focusing more on forming political alliances than killing bad guys...Which culminated in him going to Chejop Kejack (the guy who's been masterminding the extermination of Solars for the past 15 centuries because he considers them even more dangerous than the villains they fight), and KNEELING before him, to respectfully ask for his HELP and advice on saving the world.
So, while Exalted doesn't have D&D's alignment system, I generally figure my character went from Chaotic Good to Chaotic Good with Neutral Good tendencies.
Archaeopteryx 23rd Feb 2012, 6:30 PM edit delete reply
Nifty story, but if Carjack did not respond to this by immediately drop-kicking your pc's fool Anathema head off, I call shenanigans. Gold Faction he emphatically ain't.
sun tzu 24th Feb 2012, 8:58 AM edit delete reply
I'd normally agree, but...well, context matters.
And in this context, our Solar Circle had just worked with Lookshy (well, Lookshy's survivors), the Silver Pact (including Leviathan), a circlemate of the Bull of the North, and the Roseblack to free Thorn...and then return Thorn to the Scarlet Realm via the Roseblack, unconditionally. That kinda earned us a lot of cred with a lot of people. The Unconquered Sun actually left the Jade Pleasure Dome for a few minutes, just long enough to cancel some Yu-Shan legal actions against our allies and grant our Circle a few goodies (indirectly. We didn't meet him face-to-face).
Hence Chejop, while not exactly being happy with the situation, being willing to defer conflict for another day.
Saphroneth 23rd Feb 2012, 6:35 AM edit delete reply
Skill: Fast Talk DM. Cha.
Talk quickly enough and reality itself adjusts around you.
legomaster00156 23rd Feb 2012, 10:37 AM edit delete reply
Sadly, this skill is based off of the player's Charisma score, and is thus often forgotten due to the average abysmal score of a D&D player.
Bronymous 23rd Feb 2012, 4:17 PM edit delete reply
Well what do you expect with every other player and book throwing around terms like "Dump Stat" during character creation, especially if you're a new player.

Break the cycle, put ALL points into Charisma and play Spectator through the whole campaign. They'll never see it coming.
Darkside 23rd Feb 2012, 7:54 PM edit delete reply
I find this amusing because I just made a Charisma-based character, who is neither a bard, nor a sorcerer.

Because Pathfinder has Summoners.
EveryZig 23rd Feb 2012, 9:28 PM edit delete reply
There is a charisma character is my 3.5 group. Despite being a psion rather than a bard or something, he gets a +13 to diplomacy rolls at level 5 through ridiculous skill synergies.
Keairan 24th Feb 2012, 2:19 AM edit delete reply
+13 at level 5 is nothing for a Marshall. One of the pbp campaigns I'm in my character has +9 diplomacy without counting synergy.
Akouma 23rd Feb 2012, 4:21 PM edit delete reply
Akouma
Even better than fast talking the DM, just make statements slowly and clearly, but phrased in such a way that the DM can't say no. (Or yes, if you're specifically fishing for an answer in the negative.)

Granted, this opens up the "because I said so" option for the DM, but that option has to be used sparingly because if done too often people get upset.
Ranubis 23rd Feb 2012, 8:09 PM edit delete reply
Ranubis
While our Minotaur fighter isn't the fastest talker, he has seemed to develop a knack for asking just the right question for the DM to bring the game to a screeching halt as they try to find some way to NOT let him do what he wants to do without railroading the party. Seriously, last night's session I spent more time adjusting my plan to work around him than the actual plot.
Ranubis 23rd Feb 2012, 8:49 PM edit delete reply
Ranubis
Let's see who gets this.

"So we're going to be flying towards the enemy... Into what you could call... a zone."
"Yes..."
Akouma 23rd Feb 2012, 10:26 PM edit delete reply
Akouma
Avatar: TLA Abridged.

BTW, is that still going on? Haven't checked back with that one in a long time.
Kaleopolitus 24th Feb 2012, 6:45 AM edit delete reply
Kaleopolitus
Links? I found two. One of them had four episodes (and was clearly dropped. Eight months since the last announcement about it, come on.) and the other was... Probably not really an abridged series.

Idk. I cant seem to find it properly.
Ranubis 24th Feb 2012, 12:47 PM edit delete reply
Ranubis
Try ganxingba on YouTube. The abridge has 11 episodes but hasn't updated in a long while. Still, it does have some good laughs.

The quote itself comes from Ep 9, part of Aang seeing what he can get away with, very similar to a player simple-talking a DM to get what they want.
Kaleopolitus 23rd Feb 2012, 6:41 AM edit delete reply
Kaleopolitus
Ohhoho, these should be some good stories :D
IntergalactiGuy 23rd Feb 2012, 8:12 AM edit delete reply
Hm, Alignment Shifts...
I played a wizard in a The Dark Eye campaign. (TDA is th German equivalent of DnD, but without most of the magic. So, for example, teleporting a few miles is a big deal.)
Anyway this wizard was specialized in "hard" and "soft" mind-control magic, which, again, sounds better than it really was. He started out quite lawful (with me being a new player and wanting to do things the right way), but soon shifted into chaotic, partly because we got a cleric of Praios (God of the sun, law, justice and magic-hating) into the party, and partly because my character was quite cowardly (what with not having good physical stats and all that...).
So, for a while, everything was good, but my wizard grew resentful about the things that go wrong in the world, especially the churches and the "lawful-stupidness" some of them endorsed. He also somehow got it into his head that the Gods and the Archdemons ("Antigods", representing the corrupted form of the domain of a God) were not so different.
The last straw came after we defeated an undead dragon (big deal in this system) and got his Karfunkel (magical stone that has the dragons soul in it). The dragon was an evil necromancer and had a pact with an Archdemon, so it had to be destroyed. The cleric was sure it was his job, but he couldn't. Incidentally, a mage of disreputable reputation (murdered some clerics, was allied with the undead dragon for his own reasons, but (from my wizard's point of view) an ok guy) told my wizard that he knew someone who could handle this. So, I take the Karfunkel and give it to him. Party doesn't really like it, cleric wants me to foreswear magic, and in the same night, the Archdemon of madness and forbidden knowledge himself pays me a visit.
To my defense, I didn't get all chaotic evil. It was more that I had to do some detestable things, but still tried to be good (such as trying to rescue a girl with minor magical powers who did nothing wrong from the Inquisition). Well, until I betrayed the party and tried to become/make mine a natural force.
(I still regret that I didn't go through with it.)
Brony Is Magic 23rd Feb 2012, 3:10 PM edit delete reply
This one technically isn't mine. We were playing a custom campaign, with a human monk(me), a human paladin, a changeling rouge, an elven wizard, and a human cleric. So, the rouge gets captured by a group of ogres because he scouted ahead. We try to rescue him, but by the time we get to the cave, they've already killed and cooked him. So, being a complete herp-a-derp, the paladin jokes that he picks up an arm and takes a bite out of it. The DM thinks he's serious. "You are now Chaotic Evil. Heironious has cut off your power." So what does he do? He goes for me. We kill him, and continue while he rolls up another character. So the cleric (who is the only female in the party) meets an Good (or at least Neutral) ogre who sells art. She lies and says she doesn't have any friends around, just in case. So then, while we make camp, the paladin's new character runs into the campsite, tries to rape the cleric for lying, and we kill him again. I don't think he ever played again after that.
Couchman 23rd Feb 2012, 8:15 AM edit delete reply
Warforged monk in the biggest campaign I'd ever done. A spell called Morality Undone was cast on him, which briefly turned him evil.

But wait, there's more! After the spell was removed from him, he was still evil, because he was rather fond of that new perspective he had for the brief time the spell was on him. Nearly ruined the game, but the player and I were able to come to an agreeable compromise.
BadHorse 23rd Feb 2012, 8:22 AM edit delete reply
Not a true alignment shift, as my character was neutral -

But my half-ogre was accompanying a group to occupy an abandoned keep that was actually holding a group of hobgoblins.

Not wanting bloodshed, my goody-goodish (but neutral and monstrous and able to understand the "evil" hobbos) wanted to work out some kind of deal with them, or scare them off.

In the first battle, he was responsible for their 1 out of 12 casualty rate and the fact half the team had to take them back to town as prisoners.

He and another guy stayed back to scout around and found a wounded kobold, which he made a local village care for.

A team of hobgoblins went looking for their comrades and found the (lone) body, blaming the nearby village, and tortured and killed the kobold.

Finding this out, my ogre chased them down, killed all 6 of them, and has since killed 1 more and made them his favored enemy.
Bronymous 23rd Feb 2012, 4:20 PM edit delete reply
I think you already told that story. If not you, then someone told one exactly like it.
SCH 23rd Feb 2012, 8:23 AM edit delete reply
Actually.. well I had another character that was, due to mind control and personality issues, on again off again evil (I was originally running the character as a major villian for the GM... then stuff happened).

But I had another character, this funny little third person talking Great And Powerful Fire Mage (a gnome. a short gnome. He treated his height as a joke. He also made up really impressive titles 'on the spot'. I'd spend days thinking them up and writing them down on a list and pull them out at random as needed) that liked to burn things but was generally a really good little guy. The players I played with really were not much of a much in terms of an actual party. They didn't cooperate well, they generally exploited each other, hid treasure from each other, etc. Well at some point when one of the party members out and out betrayed us, (The player was an ass and thought it was funny), the little happy gnome wizard had a psychotic break.
He Would Show Them.
He Would Show Them All!
Basically, I had had enough myself, and if they wanted to play? I've played the Paranoia rpg. I've run a dozen villians that loved their jobs as a GM.

I think the DM settled on me having gone from Lawful Neutral w/good tendancies to Neutral Evil after it was all said and done. I killed 11 PC's, in a group with 6 players including myself. (5 were the same player that was just 'show up, try to kill wizard for contrived reason because he killed my last X characters, fail'. He finally quit playing. He was one of the worst of the bunch anyway.) I took levels in intimidation and used them on other players. I carved my own little empire (which was fairly nice for an evil empire) etc etc.

The guy ran a campaign set about 800 years later in the same game world. Very magisteampunk. Asked me (I wasn't playing) and I let him use my gnome epic level fire wizard as the base for a lich.

Wee!
Urthdigger 23rd Feb 2012, 6:01 PM edit delete reply
Please tell me your Great and Powerful Fire Mage got run out of a town for being a showoff.
SCH 23rd Feb 2012, 10:59 PM edit delete reply
I don't think I actually ever used The Great And Powerful... but that was the kind of thing he did. I got run out of town for solving their rat problem once. And hey, roasted rat! I was very sorry about the barn. And inn. And general store. But I took care of the rat problem!
DukeGod 23rd Feb 2012, 8:30 AM edit delete reply
M&M Anime Highschool game! I was playing a goody two-shoes mecha pilot who like any other pilot who caused so much damage it was a wonder he wasn't a criminal (he adquired quite the bad fame too, his epithet was "Madboy")
Mid-game, the Magnificent Bastard in our group sacrifices himself so he could so a lot more things as a ghost. Except I was trying to actively defend him at that time. And the woman who killed him was a good friend whom he didn't believe had become their enemy.
Cue my character blaming himself and going the brooding, silent road, and the ends begin to justify the means. He suicidally tries to get more powerful as to beat their enemy. Activates the self-destruction of his mecha(which he had built himself, and had sort of a soul) to build another one even more powerful this time with more weapons
Sadly, it ended soon after cause our DM disappeared
Zarhon 23rd Feb 2012, 9:53 AM edit delete reply
I freaking called it. :3

Can't wait to hear what the explanation for Rainbow Dash is. Or Twilight for that matter.

"So you're representing the spirit of friendship... which is apparently magic... which is your cutie mark special skill... I hate you so much right now."
LimitlessZero 23rd Feb 2012, 2:37 PM edit delete reply
Twi being the element of magic is rather easy to prove. She brought all of them together (however reluctantly) because of their mutual friendships. Dash...well, that's a tougher one to justify. She's the element of loyalty because while her actions did seem to be purely for riling up the shadowbolts, its obvious that being a king of fools would mean more power than being the sole badass barbarian of a quiet town, and she was turning down power in favor of helping her friends.
DarkEmperorZephr 23rd Feb 2012, 10:15 AM edit delete reply
Dnd 4e. I was playing a neutral evil assassin. His main goal in the campaign was the accumulation of money and powerful items. Mid way through the campaign he makes a pact with a Dracolich to gain power and enough money to start a assassins guild. Tail end of the campaign realizes that deals with Dracolich's never end well decides to ask Bahamut for help. Bahamut agrees only on the grounds that I turn from current deity Zehir, and instead worship him and strive to do the right thing. He accepts and becomes Lawful Good.
darkwulf23 23rd Feb 2012, 10:44 PM edit delete reply
darkwulf23
Just like that? If I was your dm, I would have the god test you, and then keep on testing you to make sure that your are flying straight. At least, force you to work through a path of alignments from neutral evil to lawful good to make it more believable that you repented.
DarkEmperorZephr 27th Feb 2012, 6:01 PM edit delete reply
The acceptance didn't come automatically, I slowly but surely made my way through, eventually the turning point was me opening up a orphanage for changeling children and providing for them, (srry for the late post btw.)
darkwulf23 29th Feb 2012, 10:46 PM edit delete reply
darkwulf23
Oh ok, that's more reasonable. So why Changeling children, was that out of the blue or was it in story that the world needed a changeling orphanage?
Moabite 23rd Feb 2012, 10:38 AM edit delete reply
I once played a neutral evil necromancer who, despite not giving up necromancy, became good simply by merit of the fact that his teammates were worse.

Basically, I and my (mostly CN) teammates were approached by a demon of considerable power and asked to perform some tasks which included demon worship, mass murder and child sacrifice, in return for rare magical items and followers. I was the only one who refused to go along with the scheme and was accused of not playing my alignment correctly. I argued that, while I was evil, just because I recycle dead body parts for my own benefit doesn't mean I'll jump off the slippery slope to become a serial killer.

Despite my protests, the DM changed my alignment to neutral good. I had to hide from the rest of the group and try to convince the authorities what they were up to, all while hiding my own powers. Unfortunately, I was killed by the same authorities because the group could more easily prove that I was a necromancer than I could prove they were demon worshippers.
VAE 23rd Feb 2012, 10:47 AM edit delete reply
Your GM was an imbecile, apparently.
Neutral Evil is pretty much unconcerned about law/chaos, and does whatever he perceives as most beneficial to him. I can just about see how doing odd jobs for a CE demon,and *relying on his promise* to pay back would not be something that a rational agent would consider.

tl;dr Neutral Evil != Chaotic Stupid.
NekoLLX 23rd Feb 2012, 11:59 AM edit delete reply
Speaking of necromancers.

In a story i'm writing i have a heroic Necromancer, he's sort of a ghost whisperer, he hears the voices of the dead and puts them back in their bodies to help them resolve final wishes, in turn many time they stick around to help him out for a time. However after the constant abuse by the ignorant masses calling him a monster he ends up giving up the art and switching to firemacy renaming and remaing his imange but he still hears the voices of the dead.
Bronymous 23rd Feb 2012, 4:28 PM edit delete reply
That's the one thing I always disliked. I have always considered necromancers to be pretty cool, and never considered them to be inherently evil, but whenever I play a game and come across one, he ends up being the typical emo half-assed mage who's pissed off at the world and thinks zombies, of all things, will help him change (or destroy) it.

I think Im going to play a Good Guy Necromancer next time, just to break the stereotype.
Zarhon 23rd Feb 2012, 11:05 AM edit delete reply
Is it just me or did Rarity's char sheet switch from "Lawful Evil" to "Evil"?

Also this comic is either a natural 1 or a natural 20 in the "Bluff DM" skill
terrycloth 23rd Feb 2012, 11:54 AM edit delete reply
It's just you; there's no lawful evil in 4e.

Maybe her character has to make a bluff check against her own Will to convince herself that she was really being selfless?
Bronymous 23rd Feb 2012, 4:33 PM edit delete reply
She needs to to learn what we in the business call, "Rolling with it." If she keeps talking she's just asking the DM to neutralize Twilight's whole plan, on the justification that their is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

So Rarity, shut your mouth, and roll with it.
leafia6 23rd Feb 2012, 11:38 AM edit delete reply
I'm betting Rarity reacted like this on the show mentally.
Dragonflight 23rd Feb 2012, 11:47 AM edit delete reply
My favorite alignment shift was the player who wanted to play a Drow cleric (female, of course.) In a mostly CG campaign. Especially considering I don't *like* the Master Munchkin Race, and don't include them if I can avoid it. But the other players were okay with it as long as she was only CN with evil tendencies, so I shrugged philosophically and ran with it.

The character did what most evil Drow do when they saw treasure. When the party assaulted an underground fortress complex, they circumvented the traps to get to the treasure vault. The PC was nice enough not to mess with the quest arc and let the players retrieve the important McGuffins without comment. But she saw this absolutely gorgeous helmet in a sealed magical glass case, and just had to have it. So she used a Rod of Cancellation the party had been keeping in the "special" junk closet for a rainy day to blow down the magical defenses and grab the helmet. Then, while the party was griping about the misuse of party resources, she put it on.

It was a Helm of Opposite Alignment.

Suddenly the Drow's alignment shifted... and the player ran with it. The Drow priestess Saw The Light, abandoned her former deity, and began worshiping a compatible elven deity. She decided rather than be just Lawful neutral with good tendencies, she went all the way to Lawful Good, and became a paladin. After petitioning an order and proving she deserved it.

That character became the pillar of the gaming group, and the rallying point around which the rest of the group often gathered. And no one was more surprised than I was.

Although she still had one little idiosyncrasy. She 'turned' undead by laying into them with her holy sword, or a Mace of Disruption she acquired. In her mindset, if they didn't immediately poof on the spot, she'd destroy them anyway, and you'd get the same result. But that was her only remaining bit of Drow violence-solves-problems.
The Lost 23rd Feb 2012, 12:21 PM edit delete reply
Oh, I have one from the official DnD encounters last night.... It's the first night in the season... We go to a town that has this plague that turns people into demons.... All the sick people are in this one building and my character asks how many are infected?

11.

What's the population of the town?

Hundreds.

I then have my character suggest that we burn down the house. Everyone is all like, "No... I'm lawful good, we should try and help them..."

I tell them, "I'm lawful good too, that's why we should burn them
NekoLLX 23rd Feb 2012, 12:27 PM edit delete reply
Was he a vulcan? Er elf?

joking aside did you know Gene Roddenberry original concept work for Spock/vulcans was a red skilled and horned race...
The Lost 23rd Feb 2012, 12:33 PM edit delete reply
He was a Drow Hexblade actually....
The Lost 23rd Feb 2012, 12:31 PM edit delete reply
(Accidentally hit post)

"I-m lawful good, too... That's why I think we should burn them to death rather than risk the entire town with hundreds of people in it just because you don't want to get your conscience dirty,"

I get out voted and they open the door. Of course there are demons in there. I rush in to kill them... I do okay... Until I decide to pick up a townsfolk and try to carry him out of the barn that was being set on fire (too late). While trying to carry the non demon infected, I get knocked out by the demons, and infected. I'm brought back by a healer... And I go to investigate a crash in the back room...

From the context clues we can assume a demon escaped out the back. I go out the hole there to investigate, but it's long gone. An infected person tries to escape past me, so I grab him and hold him in place...

Then I decide.... F this... I told them this would happen... Right before the encounter ends, I have my character role stealth (got 22) and bolt out of there. He's already infected, and brings that infected guy he grabbed with him... Before he goes, he writes on the wall with his blood, "I told you so."

I'm gonna have him infect as many people as I can.

Lyntermas 23rd Feb 2012, 1:29 PM edit delete reply
AJ: Geeze, Rarity, calm down. So you had a transaction where you gave a little more than you took. So what? It's not like you're "committed to the pleasure of evil" or something
Rarity: You don't understand! Do you have any idea what will happen to my reputation if this gets out? I'll be known throughout Equestria as a kind-hearted soul who does charity work and such.
AJ: ...And this is a bad thing how?
Rarity: If I plan to move through the ranks of cutthroat Canterlot high society, I must present myself as a sophisticated but ruthless fashionista. Actively assuming a position where I show such weaknesses as "generosity" undermines my carefully honed image.
Twilight: Rarity, we are trying to rescue Princess Celestia. I'm sure all the nobles you want to impress will see the accolades you gain from that far overshadow the loss of your tail. You're really just a power-grubbing thief at heart.
Rarity:...You really mean that?
PP: Yeah, helping a sea serpent is just a means to an end, you've got your eyes on the prize, you gold-digging hussy.
Rarity: Thank you, darlings. You don't know how much that means to me.
Masterofgames 23rd Feb 2012, 2:36 PM edit delete reply
DM: So help me, if you burst into tears, or initiate a group hug, then the next time Pinkie throws a party it's coming out in idle chat that you volunteer at the soup kitchen in disguise.
Rarity: (whimpering) I'll be good... I MEAN I WON'T! No more drama, I swear! (The moment the DM looks away) (Whispering to the shadows) Sorry darlings, I won't need the sofa after all, best put it back before anyone notices.
Leinad 27th Feb 2012, 12:15 PM edit delete reply
laughing this hard is probably dangerous to my health, but i don't care.
CommandoDude 23rd Feb 2012, 6:55 PM edit delete reply
I'm not really sure this is alignment "change" perhaps. But my pathfinder party keeps giving me crap when I try to play my Lawful Neutral fighter who wants to execute the gangs of cannibals we defeat.

Because obviously, despite the lawless nature of the island we're on, these are CANNIBALS who have been murdering people for decades an worship an evil undead zombie witch.

Like I'm somehow evil or chaotic for believing in removing a blight from the world?

They also give me crap because I'm trying to uphold my principles as a "Gentleman Adventurer"
Equestrian Wyvern 23rd Feb 2012, 8:03 PM edit delete reply
Well, the only time I ever had a character in a defined RPG system get forced to change alignments was in a D&D 3.5 game where I started off playing a True Neutral Kenku Swashbuckler named Firest. Over the course of one adventure the GM decided to force me to change to Neutral Good , because my character: accepted to escort a young girl on a somewhat short journey for almost no promised reward, Refused to loot a temple that we got ambushed at, and refused to take most of the loot when the priests we rescued offered it as a reward, kept on with the escort mission despite almost dying in the aforementioned ambush, agreed to send the lawful good tyrant (the little girl) back to the dimension where she ruled with an iron fist. I personally argued against this change in alignment due to the fact that it would have went completely against my character to have done anything else in the case, mainly due to the fact that my character worshipped Fharlanghn (the Greyhawk god of Travel) and thus it would have made no sense to abandon a traveler in need or to steal everything that wasn’t nailed down in the Temple of Fharlanghn. (The adventure in question is The Vessel of Stars which is one of the free adventures Wizards of the coast put out for D&D 3.5)
darkwulf23 23rd Feb 2012, 11:01 PM edit delete reply
darkwulf23
Problem with the alignment system is that everyone treats it like a straight jacket. They believe that your character has to think that way 24/7 and one slip up is an automatic betrayal to your alignment. That's why it's a bitch to play paladins who aren't "lawful-anal." Because that's what everyone expects.
Bronymous 24th Feb 2012, 10:12 AM edit delete reply
There is a reason for that, and its called Chaotic Neutral. Players see other players with that alignment and think, "well if that means do what I want when I want for whatever reason, then the other alignments must be more restrictive". This of course translates to DM's thinking the same way, and forcing those alignment straitjackets on the players.
darkwulf23 24th Feb 2012, 11:03 AM edit delete reply
darkwulf23
Actually chaotic neutral has its own problems. It is either A. I'm batsh** insane and I am as responsible for my own actions as screwy squirrel, B. I can commit random acts of evil as long as I balance it out once in a while or C. I ignore every law and legitimate authority figure that I can because it's only the man keeping you down. All of these are actually chaotic stupid.
Sher 24th Feb 2012, 12:40 AM edit delete reply
One of my friends had a player and DM made prestige class that made him amazing good and using his sword and essentially turned him into a blender... as long as he stayed lawful.

His character coup de graced a sleeping soldier which the DM ruled the chaotic enough to shift his alignment to neutral which made his character largely useless for what the player wanted to use it for. There was much arguing and reexamining the issue.
Newbiespud 24th Feb 2012, 3:37 AM edit delete reply
Newbiespud
So I was playing an Evil illusionist Wizard. His whole background was that he was formerly a conman, using his abilities to perform confidence tricks. The whole reason he got roped into the party was because the Paladin of the group had caught him and blackmailed him into following along.

This was a nautical world, and we ended up stealing a fine ship of our own. In the hold, we discovered, was a tall mirror with a couatl sculpted around the frame. It had powerful divination properties, but we also detected that there was something very powerful contained within. The first session, we chickened out before probing too deeply into the Arcana of the mirror, but later on I threw all caution to the wind and decided to wake up whatever was sleeping inside.

Surprise, a couatl's spirit rested inside. It flew out of the mirror, entered my body... and introduced itself in my mind. This was not just any couatl's spirit, but that of an Exarch of the lost god He Who Was. Very much Good-aligned.

The DM then informed me that my character, the illusionist con-artist, was now incapable of lying. At all. Ever.

I looked down at my character sheet, sighed, and said, "Well, I guess I'm Good now..."
Aekiel 24th Feb 2012, 7:31 AM edit delete reply
Always telling the truth is not the same as being unable to lie. Just look at all the myths/stories about Faeries for examples.
Bronymous 24th Feb 2012, 10:07 AM edit delete reply
Hell, look at Applejack
The MunchKING 26th Apr 2012, 2:11 PM edit delete reply
The MunchKING
She can lie, she's just REALLY BAD at it.
Vulpis 23rd Jul 2012, 2:26 AM edit delete reply
Being Honest and being Good are by no means the same thing--you can be completely and brutally Honest, and still be as evil as they come--worse, becuase you can weild truth to cause pain and suffering where others might use a white lie to save their feelings..
montrith 24th Feb 2012, 3:53 AM edit delete reply
All my players are consistently Chaotic Stupid. It makes for fun adventures, but sometimes I wish at least one of them would switch to Chaotic Competent...
the1andonly joe 24th Feb 2012, 5:18 AM edit delete reply
when i play, i uselly put down CN (my real life alignment, as it were, although i have strong leanings towards law and good) as a place holder until i get a feel for the character. in a recent dnd campagin (4th ed) it was discovered that we had no cleric in the party, and as a result we took a lot of pounding in the battles (with our dwarven figther nearly dying in one battle and my warforged artificer nearly dying in the next). now since i hadnt thought up a back story for my character, i claimed i had amnesia (yes, i know its a cop out, but i just couldnt be bothered at the time- and retroactive histories are more fun), and was still finding my place in the world, as all i knew was that the war i was built for had ended long ago. then i come across a temple of the local god (a homebrew diety, i forget his name) whos all about law and justice and stuff. i add 2 and 2, and multi-class to cleric with a LG alignment, and now i preach the word of law and justice, whilst beliving in opposing unjust laws (such as laws saying that i have to go to jail for theft and tresspassing- i never said whos laws i was following).
TDR 24th Feb 2012, 5:33 AM edit delete reply
This sounds like a few of my players. Sadly. I have a bit of a problem with the ones i play with wearing their alignments like suits they change when convient. Even striking them with the resrictions and changes a shift like that brings about doesn't help. They just find it more fun.....
darkwulf23 24th Feb 2012, 11:09 AM edit delete reply
darkwulf23
Try offering them magic weapons that are alignment restrictive. Or if they change alignments enough just tell them that they are now true neutral and force them to earn back their desired alignment.
Guest 24th Feb 2012, 8:46 AM edit delete reply
This wasn't an alignment shift so much as a hilarious but positive outcome. Our party's elf sorceror had ridiculous charisma because, well, everyone liked to min/max. In any case, he decided to be the diplomat of the group, and almost all of his spells were based around some kind of charm or domination.

Throughout the campaign his character contributes not much else other than diplo skillchecks or charming/dominating an enemy every once in a while. The DM, however, got annoyed whenever he boasted about how "godly" his character's stats/spell combination was. Fast forward to the confrontation with the big bad, a powerful looking female drow with several all male lackeys. The all male lackeys were something curious to note of but by far not unheard of. Most of the encounter involves our party engaging the lackeys and slaughtering them, thats when our sorceror gets the brilliant idea of sneaking up invisibly to dominate the mind of the drow. This was completely legal in the rules, but the DM wouldn't put up with that. The group later realized that the DM didn't like campaigns getting derailed or marginalized, and took measures to stop that from happening. Most of the time, however, he had just as much fun whenever we derailed something. This is before we understood how annoying derailing is to DMs because we were a fairly new group and most of us hadn't played DnD before.

Deciding that since he has a godly charisma score, our sorceror thinks he can easily dominate this chick, and justified his action by saying that a chaotic good elf would have no qualms dominating an evil drow and in fact would do anything he could to do so. His spell...fails, because she had an even HIGHER charisma score, and we could see the blood drain from his face. Thats when the DM said, "The *much* higher level drow SORCERESS, amused by your arrogance, casts dominate on YOU!" One turn later they dimension door out before the rest of us could do anything. The look of horror on our friend's face was priceless, but he learned his lesson of trying to marginalize the big bad.

The hilarious part was that this particular DM would cameo the drow and her slave whenever he thought the player was acting chaotic/neutral stupid, and it actually worked surprisingly well, the player started being far less presumptuous about how effective his abilities would be when cheesing, stopped trying to completely derail a campaign by messing with the big bad, and overall became a better player.
Dragonflight 24th Feb 2012, 10:26 AM edit delete reply
Sometimes that works. I had a newbie player once who kept grabbing the treasure and sifting through it whenever the players found some, which was annoying them because of the risk of finding something cursed that they'd then have to derail the game to cure the player of.

So one time, I added a cursed pair of matched katana/wakizashi to the treasure. Naturally the newbie player said, "Mine!" and grabbed them, while the other players were angrily pointing out that the player should have waited, and this was making their lives more difficult. I at that point told the player that a powerful evil consciousness had been imprisoned in the katana a long time ago, and although its existence in the sword *could* be divined magically, the act of picking it up allowed it to free itself, by magic-jarring her soul and switching places.

The player was understandably extremely upset, but since the event was technically scripted, they were able to switch the souls back and destroy the weapons fairly easily.

After that, though, the player was a lot more considerate of other players' fun, and didn't try to derail the campaign as much.
Lian 24th Feb 2012, 11:17 PM edit delete reply
Yeah I mean gods forbid PCs try and do something clever.
Goda 24th Feb 2012, 7:55 PM edit delete reply
Shifting alignment... I was playing a neutral good character in a 4.0 game. After a long day of fighting giant spiders, which she is deathly afraid of, and being taunted by her comrades, she may have used an encounter move against the main taunter. The DM made her change her alignment to unaligned rather than neutral good. Turns out that she was more fun that way!
Stairc 24th Feb 2012, 8:59 PM edit delete reply
*laughs* Love it. She's so greedy and selfish that stealing looks to her like generosity. Great way to handle that.
Digo 24th Feb 2012, 9:17 PM edit delete reply
There he was, Nagumo- a chaotic neutral Rogue/Sorcerer whoi slept with anything thaqt had legs, drank a lot, and would use his sneak attack every chance he got.

Then as the party defeated a demon that was trying to invade an old monastary, Nagumo found a holy relic- the fabled blade "Holy Avenger".
He immediately changed his alignment to LawfulGood and began taking levels in Paladin. He would now be a knight of light's champion...

And then I (the DM) called B.S. and the Holy Avenger (being an intelligent sword) turned off its magical abilities when he went up against the red dragon. 117 points of fire damage later the party began thinking either the sword was cursed or Negumo was.
Seanpony Renaud 24th Feb 2012, 11:55 PM edit delete reply
The problem is Alignment in DND doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you start breaking it down. Law isn't the opposite of chaos. Predictability/logic is the opposite of chaos. If the difference was in adherance to the law then Batman in particular (but honestly most Super Heroes in general) would have to be categorized as closer to the Joker than Superman. I declare Batman to be Lawful to the extent that his enemies actually take advantage of it because they know he won't kill them.
Rarity as an evil charachter is literally incapable of a selfless action. Doesn't mean she didn't trick the DM or hell the universe. But the fact that she acted at all means at worst she simply didn't care about the outcome which is okay or she saw the benefit. It's worth noting that a selfish act doesn't have to HURT anybody else it simply needs to help you.
banjo2E 25th Feb 2012, 1:31 AM edit delete reply
This has been noticed on more than one occasion.

http://i.imgur.com/FQVWb.jpg
Shikome Kido Mi 25th Feb 2012, 3:12 AM edit delete reply
"Rarity as an evil character is literally incapable of a selfless action." That's not really true.
You are confusing the inhumanly pure evil of creatures like fiends with the more flexible evil of mortals.
"Rarity as an evil character is extremely unlikely to commit a selfless action and when she does it will be minor in comparison to all the extremely selfish actions she takes, which will outweigh it in both number and extent" is a more accurate statement. In particular, evil creatures sometimes play favorites and show minor kindnesses to people they like or who remind them of themselves.
Just because you have an alignment system doesn't mean everyone has to be flat, one-dimensional characters.
Shikome Kido Mi 25th Feb 2012, 3:15 AM edit delete reply
Also, Law in Dungeons and Dragons actually refers to a combination of predictability/logic and belief in things like hierarchy/community.
Lawful creatures aren't necessarily bound to the actual laws of the land (though they often are) but to a particular set of rigid guidelines, that they may have created themselves.
So, yes, that is the opposite of Chaos.
Vulpis 23rd Jul 2012, 2:33 AM edit delete reply
Law is actually a poor name for it--if you ever read the description, it's not so much mortal/governmental 'law' as it is 'natural law', or more properly Order. This comes out more in the Planescape setting, where 'Law' is presented as ordered, regimental, mechanical compared to Chaos.
Steel 25th Feb 2012, 12:14 AM edit delete reply
My paladin in a pathfinder game never really shifted his alignment but...well a few times he nearly killed the Wizards familur (a raven) due to the GM being...well a jerk with it and having it pretty much convince my guy that it was really evil.... some times I wish I flambed that damn bird.
Masterofgames 25th Feb 2012, 1:28 AM edit delete reply
I can just see this happening later.

Rarity: Well, the princess is back, Nightmare Moon is gone, and I have a FABULOUS new magical necklace. All I have to do now is use my cut tail as proof I have what it takes to be ruthless, and I'll be royalty in no time! After all, it takes a special mindset to be able to cut off part of ones own body in persuit of a goal.

DM: Oh, side note, the magic surge restored you all to full health. Including any evidence of having the wounds in the first place. ANY of the wounds.

Rarity: ... FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF...

Pinkie: Ha! Rarity sounds like a balloon that sprung a leak!
Kaleopolitus 25th Feb 2012, 3:30 AM edit delete reply
Kaleopolitus
The Pinkie comment at the end made this post.
Guest 25th Feb 2012, 7:06 PM edit delete reply
ah just realized an ain't posted since page 83!
ah didn't think ah'd been that busy.
mage wolf 25th Feb 2012, 7:33 PM edit delete reply
alignment shift...

ah was in a besm game playin a werewolf, alah fred perry's gold digger and ah started-out as a mager bad guy.

ah turned good when mah charecture fell fer a girl inthe hero party, and after helpin 2 defeat mah former allies ah swore off killing as penance for the things ah had done as a villan.

years passed in game, her charecter and mine got married(we started goin out in real-life)and mah guy became a arch-war mage.

then the dm decided 2"mix things up a little" and our charecters started getin hunted down. it turned out that the villan ah had worked fer had a son out fer revenge.

ah wont say how he got revenge against me but my girlfrend at the time was not happy about havin her charecture offed and surprized every one by reveling that she and i had decided 2 have our charecters have a kid.

so picture the wrath that insued when my war-mage werewolf discovered the remanes of his pregnant mate.


[witty name goes here] 23rd Nov 2012, 6:17 AM edit delete reply
English, please?
JR Klein 26th Feb 2012, 3:36 AM edit delete reply
I have three players whose characters are princes of in-name-only kingdoms, really puppet states to a more powerful kingdom. Each player wants to overthrow the king and replace him with his father (or, in one case, himself). The player who wants to be king is a Lawful Evil, Machiavellian type, but he's been moving toward Lawful Neutral (and maybe even Lawful Good) as he gains more political power and realizes his responsibilities. It's great character development.

Regardless of alignment, though, they still love plotting against each other...
Guest 29th Feb 2012, 11:01 PM edit delete reply
I had one guy pretty much go angel on me.

He starts out as Lawful Evil.

And yet...

He was too smart. He wanted to live. He was "practical", and he wanted to, well, survive. And helping people who will help you back is... practical.

So by the end of the campaign, the guy was Lawful Good, and a walking avatar of heroism. He even ended up as a paladin, having started life... as a rogue.

Damndest thing. All in character. It was just so... practical. Yes, he wanted a divinity backing him up. Yes, healing people was useful, made them like him. Charity was good too, because it gave him connections with the poor and they know everything. Courage was good, too, because fear can drive you to stupid decisions, and courage lets you act. Honor was good, because if people can trust you you can get more out of them.

It was nuts. The player had an entire, hilarious bitch-fit (mostly fake) about how he wanted to be Lord Tyrant the Terrible, but the character's high INT score meant he ended up as Sir Goody the Great.
76mumbles 17th Mar 2012, 10:06 PM edit delete reply
This could technically go under the romance, but... Ah well. We were travelling up a mountain to stop a evil cult of monks from summoning a world-ending demon. As night falls, I take first shift, because as a drow, I don't trust anyone. I roll a perception check and barely pass, hearing a woman crying in the rain. As neutral evil, I could care less what happened to her. But if my lawful good monk found out, he'd be upset. So I wake him up and tell him, upon which he immediately set out. Next, my lawful neutral elf ranger friend goes out hunting for her weasel familiar, then follows the monk. She told them she was "camping" and "got lost". There was immediate distrust. I get up to see what's taking so long, and see this woman. She immediately called me, a drow, "cute". Serious distrust now. I quickly offer to take her back down the mountain. Turns out she's a succubus traitor, because she was the only one intelligent enough to realize that the super demon would enslave the lesser ones. She tells me how to seal the demon, but only if I promise to visit her again. After this, my character had to rethink the fact that he swiftly offered to HELP this random stanger. He changed to a better true neutral after that.
DCHorror 20th Mar 2012, 5:40 PM edit delete reply
I was playing in a game where the bard was Lawful Good.

Mostly, at first, she just got into fights with the Warden player.

Then she got a bag of holding, and the dm informed her that sticking a person in it would cause it to disappear and another player recounting that one time a party of his stuffed one bag of holding into another.

Slowly, her conversations started to turn more and more towards murder and theft. So the dm decided to have her drop lawful from the alignment.

Eventually, her actions had a large chunk of the party calling for her to be straight labeled as Evil, including her attempts to take control of an evil sword.
Chronologist 31st Mar 2012, 5:10 PM edit delete reply
I used to play a level 6 Lawful Good Factotum in a D&D 3.5 game. Think Indiana Jones, except instead of a whip he carried a rod that fired grappling hooks at will. He was generally the moral compass of the otherwise fairly chaotic, but still mostly good, group.

After a few adventures with an annoyingly evasive Big Bad, I ended up knocking out one of her lieutenants, a serial killer shifter barbarian. We had some Paladins along for the trip, who wanted to take her back to jail. I protested, as this would have cut our fighting strength in half, and she'd break out anyway with her ridiculous strength and connections.

Then another lieutenant showed up, more powerful than her, and basically started to carry her away. Mind you out group was pretty badly hurt, and he probably could have killed us in one blow. Problem was, the NPC paladins (and most of the rest of the party) wanted to let him take her away.

I issued a challenge, when he ignored, me and the ninja charged and nearly died. I then told the paladins to f**k off, I didn;t need allies who wouldn't do the right thing. Instantly went to Neutral Good, and the ninja from Chaotic Neutral to Chaotic Good.

Too bad I immediately left the game afterwards.
Broken Logic 6th Aug 2012, 12:24 AM edit delete reply
So, this NPC betrayed the party, and my team mate, who has a grudge against her anyway, face plants her into the thousand year old lich we killed last encounter. Yeah... he's kinda got an evil tag going on now. Oh, and before that, he fed the lich's heart to his panther. I had to perform CPR on it O.o
Jackson 28th Aug 2012, 10:24 AM edit delete reply
Because the game was rather relaxed I was playing fast and loose with wether my cleric could channel positive or negative energy. So when I switched from healing last round to negative channeling against the BBEG the DM got fed up with it. "Oh my god Jackson you've changed alignments like seven times this campaign and I'm the only one who seems to care!"
Me: "Idk bro, I'm a character from LOST?"
Jackson 28th Aug 2012, 10:24 AM edit delete reply
Because the game was rather relaxed I was playing fast and loose with wether my cleric could channel positive or negative energy. So when I switched from healing last round to negative channeling against the BBEG the DM got fed up with it. "Oh my god Jackson you've changed alignments like seven times this campaign and I'm the only one who seems to care!"
Me: "Idk bro, I'm a character from LOST?"
Iiridayn 9th Sep 2012, 10:54 PM edit delete reply
Played a CN Tiefling Rogue - had played CN before, but the DM was different. Long story short, picked the wrong side of the betrayal offered by the CE Tiefling underground mafia in the Asamir city, character realized too late that he was in way over his head, and adjusted alignment to CG during a torture session conducted on him by the NPC mafia who were tired of him attempting to play both sides.
Rubel 23rd Sep 2012, 2:43 PM edit delete reply
In a 3e D&D game a friend playing a NG Thief got a draw from the deck of many things and became LE. He managed to hide it from the rest of the game including carefully stepping out of the party paladins line of sight evertime he tried to detect evil. He screwed us out of loot at least twice and in character we never suspected. Luckinly he wasn't stupid evil and our quest was more important.
Alene 16th Jul 2013, 9:31 AM edit delete reply
My friend had an evil barbarian.
After an accident involving a dragon, a magic sword, a battering ram, two goats, one dragonborn and a megalomaniacal furby, the evil barbarian accidentally got his balls exploded.
Turn out his evil balls was what was making him evil. He promptly became good.
steeeve 20th Dec 2013, 10:19 PM edit delete reply
DM: "The server girl trips and spills her tray of food all over you."

'Ted' The Paladin "I (hic) Burn the F*&@&*#* inn to the ground!"


(he was drunk both in game and RL, both were banned from having booze ever again.)