Page 905 - Mafia, Part 4

9th May 2017, 6:00 AM
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Mafia, Part 4
Average Rating: 4.67 (3 votes)
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Author Notes:

Newbiespud 9th May 2017, 6:00 AM edit delete
Newbiespud
Author: DragonTrainer

Newbiespud's Note: If there's one thing the comments have demonstrated so far, it's that everyone seems to have their own preferred way of playing this game...

The next update is a Night Phase. Skip it for now and wait for the page after it if you want to "play along."

50 Comments:

Rastaba 9th May 2017, 6:05 AM edit delete reply
Rastaba
I don't...simply as I've never played it. Mind you, I don't care for the idea of lynching someone, even if it is off popular vote. Okay especially since that means overly charismatic and charming people have an unfair advantage. But yeah. I don't have a preferred set of rules or play style for this game for lack of experience with such. I am just here to enjoy the ride.
Digo Dragon 9th May 2017, 6:14 AM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
Yeah I never played this game either. It seems rather befuddling, rules-wise, though that might be because the format I'm learning it by isn't easy.

With a group this big I'd suggest a nice relaxing game of Apples to Apples/Cards Against Humanity. :D
Professor Haystacks 9th May 2017, 8:46 AM edit delete reply
I dislike Apples to Apples (and similar) personally, as no one ever agrees with me. I have a different sense of humour to most people, apparently.
Digo Dragon 9th May 2017, 9:22 AM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
I find that Apples to Apples is actually an interesting social game about understand other people's way of thinking. It's about "Playing to the Judge" and figuring out what THEY consider to be funny.
Super_Big_Mac 9th May 2017, 11:34 AM edit delete reply
Super_Big_Mac
I personally play Town of Salem, and Cards Against Humanity.

ToS is a fun variant on Mafia, and you can even play in games with Mafia, Werewolves, Vampires, Arsonists, and Witches, oh my! It's still hilarious when you've got a town full of murder-happy Townies who lynch based on nothing, so even if I lose it's fun.

And my humor tends to be too crass for those who like playing Apples to Apples over CAH, so CAH it is.
Digo Dragon 9th May 2017, 1:29 PM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
I think of Apples to Apples as the kid-friendly intro game and then graduate newcomers to CAD once they can handle the humor.
Pablo360 9th May 2017, 3:18 PM edit delete reply
Pablo360
I loathe CAH with a burning passion because I don't see the humor in being "forced" to make a racist joke. That said, in A2A, a friend once plaued Robin Williams for Lively. They had no idea.
Digo Dragon 9th May 2017, 3:40 PM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
CAD requires a certain kind of mindset. I'd never force anyone to play if they don't feel comfortable with that kind of wrong humor.

A2A is perfectly playable too. Sure it's cleaner, but when the someone plays the 'Explosive' card and I got 'Car Bomb' in my hand, I know there's gonna be laughter. :D
Super_Big_Mac 10th May 2017, 10:53 PM edit delete reply
Super_Big_Mac
Pablo360, I'm sorry if you feel "forced" to make a racist joke.

Honestly, I rarely ever need to make racists jokes in CAH, and usually it's funnier when you turn something that has all the set-up for a racist joke, and twist it into something else entirely.

Then again, I also mostly play online, with other people who WANT to play CAH, and aren't being "forced" into it, and we generally have some of the booster packs like RoosterTeeth or Game Grumps or so on to give us more jokes to use.

Dark humor is like a cure, not everyone gets it; and there's a lot of weirdo hippie-types who think you're literally Satan and Hitler's lovechild for having it.
Nixitur 11th May 2017, 5:43 AM edit delete reply
Nixitur
I dislike Cards Against Humanity because when it's not about racist, homophobic, transphobic or other jokes of that ilk (and there's a lot of those in the official packs), it's about inside jokes. And the thing with inside jokes is that they're not funny to people outside your usual group. That's also one of the many problems I have with Munchkin.
Every time I think of those games, I imagine sitting a person outside my usual friends group, non-nerdy people, people with no history of liking board or card games in front of one of those games and ask myself whether they would have fun with it. Both Cards Against Humanity and Munchkin, games which are mechanically extremely simple, fail under those criteria.

For large groups like these, I recommend Monikers or Codenames. Neither requires some inside knowledge, both are very easy to understand and both are very funny.
Luna 9th May 2017, 7:27 AM edit delete reply
Well, those kind of games are for people who enjoy debatting and arguing. If you're not a social person and don't like talking in front or crowds. Or even tend to take a whole room of people randomly ganging up on you for no reason, those games aren't for you. XD

And frankly, the first round is usually kinda random, as you don't have yet any real clue to who might be the bad guys. It gets easier on the consecutive turns when you have more data if you paid attention to what lead to the lynching and its result.
Winged Cat 9th May 2017, 11:06 AM edit delete reply
Winged Cat
Mafia and its ilk are games of charisma and charm. So, yeah, the charismatic and charming will have an advantage, like how those with good memories have an advantage at pair-matching games, or the athletic have an advantage at field sports.
ZhonLord 9th May 2017, 4:22 PM edit delete reply
That said, the charismatic and charming are also the most suspicious because they have the EASIEST time convincing people.

Games like Mafia and Werewolf suffer from WIFOM (Wine In Front of Me). It's a term referring to the endless loop of logic back and forth about whether someone is telling the truth or a lie, because with so little evidence to go on you can literally argue it to death.
Huor 9th May 2017, 7:06 AM edit delete reply
Rarity wouldn't be more obviously mafia if she was feigning a bad Italian accent.
Ishidan 9th May 2017, 6:15 PM edit delete reply
How do you know she's not?

Also:
You just read "Looks like Big Mac's the frst to get lynched" in Spike's voice.
Arcict Gray 9th May 2017, 8:05 AM edit delete reply
A long time ago, I read a comic that had people dying occasionally. It changed it's borders to tell the audience when this happened. It occurs to me, if you changed the borders during the "spoiler: night" scenes, it might help people to know when they should "skip" that page and maybe read it later after all the game is over.

The border is currently white, perhaps making it black.
Guest 9th May 2017, 8:20 AM edit delete reply
This is a very good idea, hopefully if it's not to late they can do something like that.
Newbiespud 9th May 2017, 8:57 AM edit delete reply
Newbiespud
Interestingly (and you wouldn't know this if you're avoiding spoilers right now), the borders of the Night Phase pages ARE black.
Winged Cat 9th May 2017, 11:09 AM edit delete reply
Winged Cat
Huh. I hadn't even noticed. Nice use, DragonTrainer!
Digo Dragon 9th May 2017, 9:24 AM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
Not as interesting as using oranges on screen. ;)
ShinyFlareon 9th May 2017, 8:37 AM edit delete reply
Ah, the Day 1 lynch. Never fun. Still, I feel worse for Luna; whenever I play, it's usual to start on a Day phase rather than a night phase, mostly to prevent that exact scenario of someone basically not getting to participate at all. And since the mafia gets TWO kills every night instead of just one, I wouldn't be surprised if AJ is a target again. Killing RD is pointless, she's already suspected and the town can just get rid of her themselves - especially if the main one pushing for her elimination winds up dead.
Godzfirefly 9th May 2017, 9:33 AM edit delete reply
How would starting on a Day phase even work...You'd be voting with literally no basis in evidence.
Tentreto 9th May 2017, 9:53 AM edit delete reply
Exactly, but after that, you can try and guess based on what people did earlier, and try and narrow down what people did. Most importantly, you get a chance at debate before the mafia get a chance to influence things.
Hasn't stopped games I've played in go to 'no lynch' on day 1, for various reasons, but further than this, it gets too much into the meta.
redwings1340 9th May 2017, 12:09 PM edit delete reply
redwings1340
Plot twist, the Mafia is actually a rebellion trying to kill the town council because the town council is a bunch of jerks who decides to lynch random people at the mere threat of a mafia.
Chakat Firepaw 9th May 2017, 12:10 PM edit delete reply
With the version of the Werewolf rules I have, there are a number of players who know things at the start:

The werewolves know who each other and the warlock are.
The cultists know each other and the werewolves.
The scryer and seer know each other.
The stone masons know each other.

Then there is the fool, who is _trying_ to get himself lynched.
Winged Cat 9th May 2017, 11:12 AM edit delete reply
Winged Cat
Town of Salem does this well: it starts on a day, giving people a chance to talk (and try to convince others of their roles, more important in Salem where there are many roles) - though no lynchings on that first day.

I wouldn't be surprised if AJ is saved again. She's an obvious target, despite what she said.
Kaze Koichi 9th May 2017, 9:43 AM edit delete reply
Honestly, I just play town of Salem. Never was a fan of playing Mafia in person, and with unfamiliar people it's absolutely pointless.
Scintilla 9th May 2017, 10:43 AM edit delete reply
Either the Doctor is up to no good, or it's just really hard to find appropriate screenshots for him. :P
Winged Cat 9th May 2017, 11:13 AM edit delete reply
Winged Cat
Or he's thinking of something outside the game entirely.
Kereminde 9th May 2017, 12:48 PM edit delete reply
How much he hates pears?
Digo Dragon 9th May 2017, 3:45 PM edit delete reply
Digo Dragon
How to cheat at bowling?
Chimerat 9th May 2017, 12:15 PM edit delete reply
Great job, town. :P

This is not a game I would ever play (I don't see the fun in a game that excludes people from round one from doing anything else), but it's certainly an interesting guest comic!
Blueblade 9th May 2017, 4:59 PM edit delete reply
This deck has two Three's of spades... It might be a bit stacked
aerion111 9th May 2017, 5:26 PM edit delete reply
aerion111
Personally, that 'preferred way' is 'online', and with as few 'dud' roles as possible; No one should be just a civilian.
But it doesn't work so well in person - harder to do simultaneous work.
Jennifer 9th May 2017, 5:28 PM edit delete reply
This. Right here is why I don't enjoy or understand this game. The players are GUESSING at Big Mac, and he has NO WAY of proving his innocence (or guilt, for that matter). I don't get it at all. The players have learned nothing useful at the end of the turn.
Brickman 9th May 2017, 7:48 PM edit delete reply
That's just the thing though, they did learn something useful. They learned which players tried to move the discussion towards Big Mac and which (if any) seemed a bit too eager to do so. If RD later flips as mafia those players look very suspicious, or visa versa, and they're worth paying attention to even before that.
3 is civilian? 9th May 2017, 6:12 PM edit delete reply
So... 3 is civilian? I could think that they give you a special card or something like that to put the difference
Platonix 10th May 2017, 1:11 AM edit delete reply
The "civilian" role is basically the "everyone else" role. Perhaps the fact that it's not a 'special' card is why it indicates a civilian; maybe the Mafia are Jacks, the Nurse is a Queen and the detectives are Kings.
Platonix 10th May 2017, 1:15 AM edit delete reply
...oh, hey, it actually said what the cards mean in the first page of this guest arc. Mafia are Aces and everything else I said was right.
Brickman 9th May 2017, 7:43 PM edit delete reply
The problem with watching a game of Mafia is that if you already know who's who, it usually looks like EVERYONE IS TERRIBLE at it on both sides. Because they are.

Except for the people who succeeded at shutting up when they're non-civilian. Those people are doing ok. But everyone else? TERRIBLE!
jdb1984 9th May 2017, 10:08 PM edit delete reply
There's a game called "Are you an Changeling" that is essentially Mafia. Though the creator has added some ideas of his own.
Malroth 10th May 2017, 1:26 AM edit delete reply
Malroth
1 sucessful night of kills and 1 more dud lynching and the mafia can win even if they all go open since they can rig the election if they ever achieve a majority.
Freelance 10th May 2017, 3:20 AM edit delete reply
Hmmm... I see the tricky part of being a detective. You have to be able to convince others that you know who is the mafia without the mafia catching on that you're the one who knows the truth.
Captain_Boxers 10th May 2017, 3:39 AM edit delete reply
If all you need is a nomination and a second to put people up to vote for the lynching, can't the mafia just immediately jump on that? They have four members so even if you can't repeat they can just nominate and second two players that they know aren't mafia every time, preventing themselves from ever being eliminated.
The MunchKING 10th May 2017, 7:19 AM edit delete reply
The MunchKING
Was there anywhere that said you were only allowed to have two people nominated for lynching per day? If not, then everybody else will notice your immediate leaps to accuse two random people and instead accuse you.
Malroth 10th May 2017, 9:37 AM edit delete reply
Malroth
Apparently you keep going untill someone is Lynched
The MunchKING 10th May 2017, 7:24 AM edit delete reply
The MunchKING
OK< as someone who's avoiding reading the Night Pages, how do you avoid revealing who you are in the night phase?

Wouldn't the Mafia guys have to talk to the GM to tell him they want to kill (and each other to decide what the consensus is on that?) And wouldn't the detectives and Nurse like wise have to talk to the GM? But the Civilians have no reason to. Thus couldn't you just watch the GM and see who talks to him?
redwings1340 10th May 2017, 9:14 AM edit delete reply
redwings1340
During the night phase, everyone needs to have their head down so they can't see what's going on.

The GM will say, "Mafia, wake up," then, "Mafia, point to who you want to kill", and then at that point, only the Mafia can look. So the Mafia knows who the rest of the Mafia is, but nobody else knows who is looking and who isn't at that time. Nobody says a word during the night other than the GM, it's all done through pointing.

The GM will then say, "Mafia, go to sleep", before waking up any of the other roles, and it goes on like that until everyone has gone and the night is over. This does require a bit of trust that nobody is peeking, which meant that when we played this game with my fifth grade students last year, the Mafia was caught instantly every time, but in more mature environments it works pretty well.
Ishidan 10th May 2017, 10:03 AM edit delete reply
Whoever was playing The Cop in your 5th grade game clearly learns fast.
redwings1340 10th May 2017, 1:16 PM edit delete reply
redwings1340
Haha, no, it was because half the class or more was peeking, so everyone knew who the mafia was because they watched during the night phase. Stopping my class from doing this would have been a frustrating exercise in futility, so we let it happen.

Just no self control in that class. Still, even with that, they still had fun creating stories of why they were and weren't the mafia, so it was a good experience. My partner City Year member was running most of the games, I was a bit quieter and watched for the most part, but the students seemed fine with the knowledge that everyone else was peeking. They loved the game, and winning by defeating the mafia felt good to them.