Friendship is Dragons
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Page 1143 - Less Necks
Author Notes:
Newbiespud
15th Nov 2018, 5:00 AM
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If you guys/gals/whatever(I don't care) get this riddle right, I will not mess with anyone in comments.
Light and Darkness reunited,
She helped me, my shadow abated.
Light and Darkness reunited,
She helped me, my shadow abated.
And I have a riddle for you, Discord:
What was it that Odin whispered to his son Baldr before he was burned on the funeral pyre?
What was it that Odin whispered to his son Baldr before he was burned on the funeral pyre?
"I called your Baldr because you had no hairr when you were born." ?
Very close, Hankroyd! Next I'd ask who pulls the sun and the moon through the sky but that might be too easy!
That would be Twilight. Helping abate Luna's darkness, reuniting the sisters of Sun and Moon - Light and Darkness.
That said, please continue to mess with people in the comments. Having someone with the skill to pull off Discord has made a lot of the below-page conversations so much fun!
That said, please continue to mess with people in the comments. Having someone with the skill to pull off Discord has made a lot of the below-page conversations so much fun!
Twilight, dear, I do agree on the philosophy that if the party has ground down to a halt and won't help save the world, it is better to go it alone (or with some NPC allies) than keep harping on the problem PCs to help. I can't disagree that you're getting annoying, due to parroting the same argument a bit too many times. Just mount your own heroic rescue and Role Play that charge of the Light Brigade! If you go down, at least you go down fighting for the world.
Yeah that's what I'd be doing in Twi's place. Just go fight Discord with RD and if he kills us? Welp, we're both free and everyone else can have fun sitting at the table doing nothing but talk until the session is over.
Twi dying and derailing the campaign would be a huge bit of irony here considering the GM's lament at the beginning of the arc.
Been there Digo, been there, watching a campaign collapse as players decided "this is crap, I'd rather die fighting than keep plowing through this GM-power-trip campaign". TBH, they were right (in that specific instance, I mean).
We solved a variety of puzzles to unlock the microwave, as well as a metal bowl to use to open it. People were arguing about trying to just break open the door, or set some smaller fires to open the door's heat sensors, but while they were doing so, our resident pragmatic True Neutral just grabbed the bowl and shoved it into the microwave.
Shockingly, this wasn't even the worst betrayal that happened in that game. (It's fine, everyone was cool with it OOC and that's just how murdergames go.)
I have two, both from Call of Cthulthu games. In the first we ran across a group of cultists and after spending 30 RL minutes discussing what to do my gunslinger just walked down the hill firing both pistols and killed them all. "Looks like they weren't that hard to kill after all you wusses!"
The second one we were in a haunted house and I was the only one with any research skill. Everyone else poked around the house randomly while I just went to the basement where we knew the trouble was. Another player eventually wandered down there.......and then shot me point blank with a shotgun when he saw me
"Is there anyone else down here with me?"
"Yes, you see-"
"I shoot them!" *rolls* *crits* "15 damage!"
"......You execute Iris flawlessly."
"Alright welp, I'm going home now. Guess you guys actually have to try to do something....ya dipshits." *leaves*
I later learned they accidentally blew up the house witj dynamite about 15 minutes later and the surviving 2 got gunned down by the cops while they were screaming about the house having demons.
The second one we were in a haunted house and I was the only one with any research skill. Everyone else poked around the house randomly while I just went to the basement where we knew the trouble was. Another player eventually wandered down there.......and then shot me point blank with a shotgun when he saw me
"Is there anyone else down here with me?"
"Yes, you see-"
"I shoot them!" *rolls* *crits* "15 damage!"
"......You execute Iris flawlessly."
"Alright welp, I'm going home now. Guess you guys actually have to try to do something....ya dipshits." *leaves*
I later learned they accidentally blew up the house witj dynamite about 15 minutes later and the surviving 2 got gunned down by the cops while they were screaming about the house having demons.
I was playing a Devil Bard (from the Devil's Handbook third-party supplement, ok'd by the DM because we had kind of a secret subplot going on in the background) and had just joined the party (because it was like my second session with the group, in what was an ongoing game.)
In the game, the party was traveling across different realms trying to find a set of swords based on the Swords of Power from Fred Saberhagen's "Swords" series. They already had a few of them and they were stored in a magical vault back in the place the party used as a home base. Two people had a Sword with them, I think... I can't remember what one was, but the wizard of the party was carrying Soulcutter, which in the game had powers based on negative energy.
Anyway, the wizard player wasn't able to game that session so the wizard had fallen asleep sitting up against a pillar. The party was in an ancient Dwarven fortress that was besieged by Orcs in a wave that would make a 40k Ork Warband proud. The defenses were failing, and one of the party's enemies was inside the fort trying to raid one of the tombs.
An argument breaks out among the party, with someone suggesting that the wizard's Sword might be of some use... and other saying it should not be used under any circumstances. (Half the party wanted to just destroy the things, while the other half wanted to keep them either to keep them out of the wrong hands or to study them.) They kept going back and forth for like 5-10 minutes of real time. So since I was new and supposedly didn't know anything about the Swords, I finally got tired of it and said "I don't know what you guys are talking about, but if it's such a big deal then I'll just do it."
I pulled the Sword free, and all of the dead from the conflict were soon rising to their feet under my control. Even some of the Dwarven tombs were close enough to feel the Sword's power and the ancient skeletons started trying to come to my aid. The rest of the party ended up going to fight the one bad guy, leaving me there to... deal with... the Orcs. Nobody liked it, but it got the job done.
(The subplot I mentioned was that I was actually working for a well-known devil and was on a mission to find one of the Swords for him; it wasn't this one, though. I probably knew more about the Swords than anyone, but the party never thought to ask if I'd heard of them or anything.)
In the game, the party was traveling across different realms trying to find a set of swords based on the Swords of Power from Fred Saberhagen's "Swords" series. They already had a few of them and they were stored in a magical vault back in the place the party used as a home base. Two people had a Sword with them, I think... I can't remember what one was, but the wizard of the party was carrying Soulcutter, which in the game had powers based on negative energy.
Anyway, the wizard player wasn't able to game that session so the wizard had fallen asleep sitting up against a pillar. The party was in an ancient Dwarven fortress that was besieged by Orcs in a wave that would make a 40k Ork Warband proud. The defenses were failing, and one of the party's enemies was inside the fort trying to raid one of the tombs.
An argument breaks out among the party, with someone suggesting that the wizard's Sword might be of some use... and other saying it should not be used under any circumstances. (Half the party wanted to just destroy the things, while the other half wanted to keep them either to keep them out of the wrong hands or to study them.) They kept going back and forth for like 5-10 minutes of real time. So since I was new and supposedly didn't know anything about the Swords, I finally got tired of it and said "I don't know what you guys are talking about, but if it's such a big deal then I'll just do it."
I pulled the Sword free, and all of the dead from the conflict were soon rising to their feet under my control. Even some of the Dwarven tombs were close enough to feel the Sword's power and the ancient skeletons started trying to come to my aid. The rest of the party ended up going to fight the one bad guy, leaving me there to... deal with... the Orcs. Nobody liked it, but it got the job done.
(The subplot I mentioned was that I was actually working for a well-known devil and was on a mission to find one of the Swords for him; it wasn't this one, though. I probably knew more about the Swords than anyone, but the party never thought to ask if I'd heard of them or anything.)
The party *didn't* ask the bard for any stories about an ancient magical artifact?
I'll bet they don't put points into knowledge skills, either.
I'll bet they don't put points into knowledge skills, either.
Let's see, off the top of my head...
"Legend of Five Rings" game. To sum up the adventure, we were investigating the case of a monk being possessed by the angry ghost of a peasant who had been executed for a crime e didn't commit. The Hida Bushi, in his own words, nearly dozed off during the investigation and went straight for the monk, failing to understand that A) the monk had been possessed (and empowered) by an angry ghost, and B) the monk was a skilled martial artist. End result, the Bushi had his ass handed to him, but fortunately held out long enough for the rest of the party to arrive.
"DC Heroes" game (the old Mayfair system), but the setting was the GM's creation. Again, to sum things up: Satan had abandoned Hell and a recurring villain became the new Prince of Hell and released the souls of all sinners onto Earth, so the team descended to Hell to defeat him. Not all of Hell's demons supported the villain's rule, though, so we went to one of those, Lilith, to ask for help, but one of the players got annoyed and had his character insult Lilith, so we had to confront the villain without any help.
Just to round up a trifecta: D&D game set in Middle Earth. I didn't play this one, only heard about it, but at some point the PCs got into a riddling match with a dragon. One of the players apparently got bored of the riddles and just attacked the dragon. It wasn't a TPK, but only because some of the PCs managed to escape.
"Legend of Five Rings" game. To sum up the adventure, we were investigating the case of a monk being possessed by the angry ghost of a peasant who had been executed for a crime e didn't commit. The Hida Bushi, in his own words, nearly dozed off during the investigation and went straight for the monk, failing to understand that A) the monk had been possessed (and empowered) by an angry ghost, and B) the monk was a skilled martial artist. End result, the Bushi had his ass handed to him, but fortunately held out long enough for the rest of the party to arrive.
"DC Heroes" game (the old Mayfair system), but the setting was the GM's creation. Again, to sum things up: Satan had abandoned Hell and a recurring villain became the new Prince of Hell and released the souls of all sinners onto Earth, so the team descended to Hell to defeat him. Not all of Hell's demons supported the villain's rule, though, so we went to one of those, Lilith, to ask for help, but one of the players got annoyed and had his character insult Lilith, so we had to confront the villain without any help.
Just to round up a trifecta: D&D game set in Middle Earth. I didn't play this one, only heard about it, but at some point the PCs got into a riddling match with a dragon. One of the players apparently got bored of the riddles and just attacked the dragon. It wasn't a TPK, but only because some of the PCs managed to escape.
And it is revealed, Twilight's player is kinda a douche when things don't go her way. And before anyone gainsays this with the constant apologizing for her behavior over the others...it's literally no excuse. She could and should still be better than that. Just because they're acting like idiots doesn't give her a free pass to be an absolute asshole to them, and at this point, she really is. There are, and always have been, options around this kind of thing.
Yes, the CROWN says it all, really. If this were an MMO or PVP shooter or the like, then Twilight would be the player demanding that everyone follow her because she has the best plan to win, and - regardless of ability or competence - nobody wants to follow someone being so unpleasant.
Lord, I assumed you'd be better than this at least. I'm so damn disappointed right now.
I kinda disagree with you.
It's not things don't go her way ... It's just things don't go anywhere.
And don't forget she is new to this Role Play Thingy. From her POV, right now she has to deal with four players acting more like asses than ponies and doing no effort whatsoever to make the story progress. And she hasn't the experience to deal with this so she tries to defeat the Boss, get the curse lifted and having a normal game again.
It's not things don't go her way ... It's just things don't go anywhere.
And don't forget she is new to this Role Play Thingy. From her POV, right now she has to deal with four players acting more like asses than ponies and doing no effort whatsoever to make the story progress. And she hasn't the experience to deal with this so she tries to defeat the Boss, get the curse lifted and having a normal game again.
Yes, heaven forbid that she should want to save Equestria. Democracy has decreed that the order of the day is to fiddle while Rome burns, and only a complete asshole would have any other desires.
@grayGriffin - I never said anything about her crown, just her being a jerk. If you weren't talking to me when you mentioned all this, then please disregard. XD
@Hankroyd - While that's fair, this character HAS been playing the round table with the others for quite some time now, and has heard some stories, and has quite a few of her own. She's not a total noob anymore at this point. At this point, she's an average player. I thank you though for your calm and collected way of presenting your information.
@Borg - Resistance is futile, and Sarcasm is too. ;p She has every right to be frustrated, but not to be a dick to her friends. That's where she crossed the line. She can be pissed off that the game is going nowhere, and that is TOTALLY fair. What she hasn't done is tried to figure out any reasons why, talk to characters out of the game, or really anything else. She's just taking all of their RP personally, and insulting the players over the characters. So it's not so much, "Heaven forbid she wanna save Equestria," and more, "Heaven forbid Twilight be polite to her friends."
@Hankroyd - While that's fair, this character HAS been playing the round table with the others for quite some time now, and has heard some stories, and has quite a few of her own. She's not a total noob anymore at this point. At this point, she's an average player. I thank you though for your calm and collected way of presenting your information.
@Borg - Resistance is futile, and Sarcasm is too. ;p She has every right to be frustrated, but not to be a dick to her friends. That's where she crossed the line. She can be pissed off that the game is going nowhere, and that is TOTALLY fair. What she hasn't done is tried to figure out any reasons why, talk to characters out of the game, or really anything else. She's just taking all of their RP personally, and insulting the players over the characters. So it's not so much, "Heaven forbid she wanna save Equestria," and more, "Heaven forbid Twilight be polite to her friends."
And I was responding to Archone, who decided to use the crown as somehow being evidence of Twilight being a terrible abusive powergamer.
@Graygriffin And once again the exaggeration of my arguments into full on straw. Along with calling those who disagree with you jerks.
I have played with people who acted like Twilight is acting in these last few pages. And... generally speaking, they either apologized afterwards, or people ended up leaving the table. Hell, I've even acted that way once or twice - and apologized afterwards, because being frustrated does not give anyone the right to be abusive and lash out at others.
I'm fairly certain that's the general theme of at least a few episode morals in the show proper.
I have played with people who acted like Twilight is acting in these last few pages. And... generally speaking, they either apologized afterwards, or people ended up leaving the table. Hell, I've even acted that way once or twice - and apologized afterwards, because being frustrated does not give anyone the right to be abusive and lash out at others.
I'm fairly certain that's the general theme of at least a few episode morals in the show proper.
How is "you get a magic item", "I'll do this alone if I have to" and "I'm saving all your butts" being a jerk? Those are 100% factual statements (while RD is willing to help, she didn't do anything with the what-if-it's-trapped book situation and is waiting for the plan), and none of the cursed ponies are disagreeing with those facts.
@GrayGriffin - IS she responding in character this time? Cuz she's been flip-flopping with her responses as to where they've been directed for the last few pages. And if she isn't, it's really hard to tell in some places just how IC she is, since as far as we know, in this version of Equestria, or the show proper, I don't think the Tony Awards exist. Now, I could be wrong, she could be totally IC, but to me, it doesn't seem that way. It seems like she's taking OOC jabs at the other players themselves from time to time, and not responding IC every time, which would be, dare I say, human of a frustrated player.
@Guest - Because that's been her general attitude for the last few panels. It's not just one scene, that would be silly. It's a lot of build up. I too have been a frustrated player, I too have become snippy and it wasn't always in character to other characters. So do you wanna take a shot at what that made me as well? It's easy to recognize when you've been guilty of it yourself, had to face the music, and grow from it.
@Guest - Because that's been her general attitude for the last few panels. It's not just one scene, that would be silly. It's a lot of build up. I too have been a frustrated player, I too have become snippy and it wasn't always in character to other characters. So do you wanna take a shot at what that made me as well? It's easy to recognize when you've been guilty of it yourself, had to face the music, and grow from it.
So ... If TS is a douche because she does things you did... Does that means you are a douche, too?
Or does that means she isn't a douche and is just frustrated by the whole situation and do not react well.
She may be an 'average' player now, but when you encounter something for the first time (here : Players that having their own fun at the expense of the story) you may react not the most efficient way. Especially if you have the fun sucked out of you.
Or does that means she isn't a douche and is just frustrated by the whole situation and do not react well.
She may be an 'average' player now, but when you encounter something for the first time (here : Players that having their own fun at the expense of the story) you may react not the most efficient way. Especially if you have the fun sucked out of you.
I'd retract my statement about TS being a douche - if I'd ever said such a thing. But she was rude and unpleasant to her friends. And when I was rude and unpleasant to my friends, I was called out on it. And then I apologized.
I believe I already made a post about that.
I believe I already made a post about that.
Sorry Archone, my message wasn't meant to you but but for DuoScratch.
He called TS a douche in his first message then added he has acted the same as her in his last post.
Well, he did, you did, and to be honest I think a lot of people did (myself included).
That doesn't mean we are douche and we want to ruin other's fun. It just mean that sometimes we react poorly when annoying things happens.
He called TS a douche in his first message then added he has acted the same as her in his last post.
Well, he did, you did, and to be honest I think a lot of people did (myself included).
That doesn't mean we are douche and we want to ruin other's fun. It just mean that sometimes we react poorly when annoying things happens.
I dont really understand why it seems like everyone has a need to find someone to demonize as a horrible villainous jerk who doesn't know how to RP right and needs to be taught a "lesson". It makes me feel uncomfortable is all. I dont think the arc needs to be, nor is it going to be, a story about "GRR YOU HORRIBLE PERSON YOU NEED TO BE PSYCHOLOGICALLY MANIPULATED AND LEARN A LESSON ABOUT HOW TO HAVE FUN RIGHT" I dont think ANYone, Discord, DM, Twilight, Fluttershy, or anyone else, needs to be put down and made to look like an awful person and have various awful traits projected onto them.
I believe that, as this comment section tends to be made up of experienced roleplayers, we have a right to our opinions. We should, however, be able to express those opinions without attacking the characters or each other.
Case in point, DiscorDM makes me uncomfortable because I usually GM rather than play, and he behaves in ways I try to avoid. That's my experience and bias having an effect on my impression of him.
He's not a monster, or evil, and he didn't come here to ruin things for the players or for CelestiaGM. But for the way I've always played, he made a serious breach of conduct when he did all this stuff to the players without clearing it OOC beforehand.
And so when I see people saying Twilight is bad or is No True Roleplayer, I'm going to say something. From now on, I'm going to try to take this more neutral tone.
Case in point, DiscorDM makes me uncomfortable because I usually GM rather than play, and he behaves in ways I try to avoid. That's my experience and bias having an effect on my impression of him.
He's not a monster, or evil, and he didn't come here to ruin things for the players or for CelestiaGM. But for the way I've always played, he made a serious breach of conduct when he did all this stuff to the players without clearing it OOC beforehand.
And so when I see people saying Twilight is bad or is No True Roleplayer, I'm going to say something. From now on, I'm going to try to take this more neutral tone.
Agreed. This arc seems to mostly be a case of people suddenly dumped into a new, unbalancing situation with other people they don't know well and various people's playstyles and personalities not meshing well. I don't think anyone is being deliberately evil or jerkish, but I think various people's perceptions of each other and their assumed motives and wants are causing individuals to think the worst of each other and get angry and defensive over what they each perceive is going on.
And that's just in the comic.
And that's just in the comic.
I can agree with you in the sense that people's playstyles and personalities aren't meshing well currently in comic and that there have been serious breaches in conduct/a severe lack of communication all around, Mr. Wednesday and HappyEevee. The group overall had been fine for the most part building up to this arc with the Mane 6 + the regular GM, but the addition of Discord!DM and his quirks in this specific manner (i.e. no warning, no communication, no introductions, and sudden extended exposure through a character designed with nigh-unlimited power and full freedom to oppose the party however desired) is definitely throwing wrenches into the groups' relationships as a whole (which was kind of the point ic for Discord as a villain - to sabatoge their relationships to render the Elements useless and win - but I think the way things were executed caused the issues to bleed into the OoC and muddled the waters tremendously), in addition to not allowing for a good first impression on Discord!DM. (Doesn't help that OoC Discord!DM seems to have a playstyle revolving around blurring the lines between OoC and IC - it gets hard to tell who's in character or not anymore sometimes, tbh, especially with Discord since we usually just see him in the middle of DMing with only one particular scene with Fluttershy being him talking outside of the game - and I'm not sure if he's actually thought of what the possible consequences of his ic curses on the players could end up being if some things like the player's reactions went poorly...).
Also, I've been pretty clear about the times I'd had issues with bs villains + dms who think overly strong villains pitted against unreasonably weak heroes are great + disliked inter-party conflict, so I don't think I need to explain why I personally would be leery and more critical of Discord!DM (Though I will explain more if asked).
Also, I've been pretty clear about the times I'd had issues with bs villains + dms who think overly strong villains pitted against unreasonably weak heroes are great + disliked inter-party conflict, so I don't think I need to explain why I personally would be leery and more critical of Discord!DM (Though I will explain more if asked).
No one's calling her a bad person. We're pointing out that she's been increasingly unpleasant with her fellow players in order to get her way.
In other words, it's not about her being branded "officially a horrible person." It's about her getting the same treatment that characters get in the show - where they realize they've been doing something wrong, they make amends, and (in earlier seasons) someone writes a letter to Celestia about it.
In other words, it's not about her being branded "officially a horrible person." It's about her getting the same treatment that characters get in the show - where they realize they've been doing something wrong, they make amends, and (in earlier seasons) someone writes a letter to Celestia about it.
Potato, tomato, Laredo, Barbados.
“No one's calling her a bad person. We're pointing out that she's been increasingly unpleasant with her fellow players in order to get her way.” You say.
How is that position different from the “DiscorDM is awful and bad and wants everyone to have HIS kind of fun” argument? And you’re not allowed to say “because I’m right”, @Archone. If I were to bring up when DiscorDM lost his shit at Fluttershy for taking the wind out of his performance, you wouldn’t find anything wrong with that. And from my point of view, you would seem to make an excuse for his behaviour, like you think I would for what Twilight is doing.
I suppose I’m wondering why your filter lets everything DiscorDM does pass through, and seems tuned ‘specially to whether Twilight is “respecting roleplaying” or not. What is your basis of experience for taking this view? Several of us have been pretty forthcoming about our Ral games and how they influence our opinions. What about you?
“No one's calling her a bad person. We're pointing out that she's been increasingly unpleasant with her fellow players in order to get her way.” You say.
How is that position different from the “DiscorDM is awful and bad and wants everyone to have HIS kind of fun” argument? And you’re not allowed to say “because I’m right”, @Archone. If I were to bring up when DiscorDM lost his shit at Fluttershy for taking the wind out of his performance, you wouldn’t find anything wrong with that. And from my point of view, you would seem to make an excuse for his behaviour, like you think I would for what Twilight is doing.
I suppose I’m wondering why your filter lets everything DiscorDM does pass through, and seems tuned ‘specially to whether Twilight is “respecting roleplaying” or not. What is your basis of experience for taking this view? Several of us have been pretty forthcoming about our Ral games and how they influence our opinions. What about you?
it's, like, a scripted webcomic about a tabletop rpg–like, it's not even based on an ACTUAL game–what does he need to have a "right to (his) opinions" like you do? a degree in game design? so many hours logged in a record book? a journal to cite specific instances with date and time? like, uh??? you might be looking at this from a tabletop perspective, but what about from a story perspective, how does that change the arbitrary criteria you're demanding since *apparently* most of the readers here in the comments are experienced players or whatever and only they get to have an opinion AND they have to justify it? and all right after you promise to "take this more neutral tone," too, like right up there
In the spirit of the more moderate, neutral tone this thread began with where no one is deliberately being a monster, I'd like to note that on previous pages I think I have been fairly critical of Discord and the party, while also noting Twilight is becoming angry beyond what is healthy for a table. As I've watched some of these arguments over the past few weeks, I think part of the problem is that it's incredibly easy to look at the most recent few pages and evaluate the players within them, and sometimes the broader context of the arc gets lost. I think most sides agree by this point that Discord has behaved inappropriately at times, the GM has not handled the tension well, the cursed players are OOC communicating poorly, and that Twilight is not taking these circumstances well.
All that said, some posts have either laid the blame entirely on one party, or they have rejected the idea that others are remotely at fault. (I may have been slightly guilty of this myself a few pages back). to the point of @MrWednesday, it is not fair or just to only call attention to (or exaggerate) the faults or errors of one party and to not treat the others with equal consideration. This mess was not made by one person at this point. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion or assigning majority blame, but doing so without conceding the involvement of other parties is not argument in good faith. Moreover, posting a strong opinion in any direction invites challenge, and lashing out at challengers is a betrayal of the strength of one's own argument.
All that said, some posts have either laid the blame entirely on one party, or they have rejected the idea that others are remotely at fault. (I may have been slightly guilty of this myself a few pages back). to the point of @MrWednesday, it is not fair or just to only call attention to (or exaggerate) the faults or errors of one party and to not treat the others with equal consideration. This mess was not made by one person at this point. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion or assigning majority blame, but doing so without conceding the involvement of other parties is not argument in good faith. Moreover, posting a strong opinion in any direction invites challenge, and lashing out at challengers is a betrayal of the strength of one's own argument.
Relax your axe, @Guest. You've gone and created a lot to get angry about that isn't really there. I take it from your indignant tone you have some problem with my assertion that there are some experienced roleplayers here (maybe sharing stories about past games they were in). I tried to avoid generalizing but I guess I didn't succeed. Sorry about that.
@Mr Wednesday i suppose i'll accept the apology i didn't want nor ask for to make yourself look better, while you sidestep addressing the actual issue raised. where are those fancy debate skills now, i wonder. isn't that what you were crowing about for pages now, people not debating by your made up rules so you can "win" the argument?
@Guest Well thanks! It's been a long time since someone called my skills "fancy"
Tell me, what do you say my criteria are?
Tell me, what do you say my criteria are?
@Mr Wed been there, done that, you know exactly what the issue is and STILL with the game. this time, instead of responding to me at all, you're trying to redirect with a question so *i* am on the defensive. sorry to say i'm not interested in writing an annotated essay with cited sources and my qualifications. i'll try to be more frank, tho, if that helps: i have an issue with your tone and implications, it strikes me as single-minded and a little elitist in a way that's meant to shut down discussion or challenge to your perceived authority, and decided to say something about it. altho, this whole thing will be outdated as early as tomorrow morning when the next update inevitably sparks the exact. same. debate. with new drapes
@Guest, your argument is artificial. It has been since you turned down my apology. That’s weren’t you went from trying to talk to trying to win. You had a good point, that I had made a sweeping generalization, which I then admitted.
And it’s not like you’re still on-issue. Your original point about this comic as a piece of scripted fiction got left behind, but could’ve been very interesting if you’d expanded on it. Instead, here you are, trying to make it look like I denied your point, putting on an act of righteous indignation.
So I’m gonna venture that you think (or are acting like you think) that I was calling for everyone who hadn’t played a game before, or isn’t here for that part of the comic, to shut up. Let me tell you that if you think that you are WRONG, and if you are acting like I said that, you’re just being misleading.
Let’s look at what I was really saying: that people’s experiences at the table are influencing their opinions: me, obscurereader, DuoScratch up there. We are all responding to what we’ve seen in games, and our different experiences are producing different opinions. I personally find the opinion that Twilight is the only one to blame here problematic, and I don’t see why some people are so attached to it. I don’t see what’s wrong with positing the idea that the tension is coming from many directions. Majority rule works great for lots of things but roleplaying games need more than that.
If we are talking about elitism, it’s pretty elitist to say that Twilight should just be ABLE to adapt to this unexpected addition of her regular game, and GET OVER IT and find a way to have fun because “everybody else is”. It says that she has no right to how she feels, and should spontaneously change herself to go along. (Which, notice, is not a sentiment getting directed at RD, for instance).
I was suggesting that we might all be able to dig ourselves out of these trenches we’re in and actually communicate in a meaningful way, without attacking each other. Then you attacked me. Oh well.
You’re probably right, that this’ll get re-enacted tomorrow, but you don’t have to be here for it, @Guest. Nobody is making you take part. You choose to be here like the rest of us.
If you’re planning to stick around though, it doesn’t take very much longer to write my whole name: it’s Mr Wednesday. Not “Wednesday”, not “Wed”.
And it’s not like you’re still on-issue. Your original point about this comic as a piece of scripted fiction got left behind, but could’ve been very interesting if you’d expanded on it. Instead, here you are, trying to make it look like I denied your point, putting on an act of righteous indignation.
So I’m gonna venture that you think (or are acting like you think) that I was calling for everyone who hadn’t played a game before, or isn’t here for that part of the comic, to shut up. Let me tell you that if you think that you are WRONG, and if you are acting like I said that, you’re just being misleading.
Let’s look at what I was really saying: that people’s experiences at the table are influencing their opinions: me, obscurereader, DuoScratch up there. We are all responding to what we’ve seen in games, and our different experiences are producing different opinions. I personally find the opinion that Twilight is the only one to blame here problematic, and I don’t see why some people are so attached to it. I don’t see what’s wrong with positing the idea that the tension is coming from many directions. Majority rule works great for lots of things but roleplaying games need more than that.
If we are talking about elitism, it’s pretty elitist to say that Twilight should just be ABLE to adapt to this unexpected addition of her regular game, and GET OVER IT and find a way to have fun because “everybody else is”. It says that she has no right to how she feels, and should spontaneously change herself to go along. (Which, notice, is not a sentiment getting directed at RD, for instance).
I was suggesting that we might all be able to dig ourselves out of these trenches we’re in and actually communicate in a meaningful way, without attacking each other. Then you attacked me. Oh well.
You’re probably right, that this’ll get re-enacted tomorrow, but you don’t have to be here for it, @Guest. Nobody is making you take part. You choose to be here like the rest of us.
If you’re planning to stick around though, it doesn’t take very much longer to write my whole name: it’s Mr Wednesday. Not “Wednesday”, not “Wed”.
@Mr Wednesday (and anyone else really, I suppose):
Y'know, maybe I'm just being overly paranoid here...but I'm beginning to wonder whether Archone and Comments!Discord are the same person speaking through different accounts.
I bring this up because I've encountered such a situation when I found out that a Moderator on a Fallout forum I used to frequent had three other accounts he used to observe and investigate users incognito and/or back up a point whenever he wanted to make a point.
Y'know, maybe I'm just being overly paranoid here...but I'm beginning to wonder whether Archone and Comments!Discord are the same person speaking through different accounts.
I bring this up because I've encountered such a situation when I found out that a Moderator on a Fallout forum I used to frequent had three other accounts he used to observe and investigate users incognito and/or back up a point whenever he wanted to make a point.
In response to those:
@Another Guest no, I am not Comments!Discord. ALL my posts have been made under the same name. Archone. All my posts will continue to be made under the same name. I don't need to create fake accounts to back up my opinions. (And if you've seen the name in other forums or comments sections... it was probably me as well. Not many people use that handle)
@GrayGriffin I'm calling her bossy and unpleasant, not because she's giving herself the assigned element, but because she's lashing out at her friends, derailing their enjoyment because they're not "playing correctly," and failing to notice their growing unhappiness with her behavior. That does not make her a bad person (I expect I may have to copy/paste that a few times when you continue to ignore that in favor of claiming that I'm painting Twilight as the bad guy); it makes her someone who is screwing up. Which, as I have noted, a repeated theme in the show itself. Characters screw up, they apologize and make amends, they learn a lesson. Twilight herself has been the one to screw up repeatedly in the show itself. Here we are seeing Twilight the player screw up in the comic.
@Mr Wednesday I find it amusing that you're doing the same thing to Guest that you attempted to do with me. Guest was pointing out that you don't have the right to act as the impartial referee or higher authority in regards to this, a discussion of the ongoing storyline of a webcomic we all came here to read. The only one who gets to do that is Newbiespud. If you want to tell someone to relax their axe, perhaps you should tell it to GrayGriffin, who has now progressed to calling everyone who disagrees with them jerks and declaring that our continued failure to agree with them is "so damned disappointing."
@Another Guest no, I am not Comments!Discord. ALL my posts have been made under the same name. Archone. All my posts will continue to be made under the same name. I don't need to create fake accounts to back up my opinions. (And if you've seen the name in other forums or comments sections... it was probably me as well. Not many people use that handle)
@GrayGriffin I'm calling her bossy and unpleasant, not because she's giving herself the assigned element, but because she's lashing out at her friends, derailing their enjoyment because they're not "playing correctly," and failing to notice their growing unhappiness with her behavior. That does not make her a bad person (I expect I may have to copy/paste that a few times when you continue to ignore that in favor of claiming that I'm painting Twilight as the bad guy); it makes her someone who is screwing up. Which, as I have noted, a repeated theme in the show itself. Characters screw up, they apologize and make amends, they learn a lesson. Twilight herself has been the one to screw up repeatedly in the show itself. Here we are seeing Twilight the player screw up in the comic.
@Mr Wednesday I find it amusing that you're doing the same thing to Guest that you attempted to do with me. Guest was pointing out that you don't have the right to act as the impartial referee or higher authority in regards to this, a discussion of the ongoing storyline of a webcomic we all came here to read. The only one who gets to do that is Newbiespud. If you want to tell someone to relax their axe, perhaps you should tell it to GrayGriffin, who has now progressed to calling everyone who disagrees with them jerks and declaring that our continued failure to agree with them is "so damned disappointing."
So do you think that DiscordDM and the rest of the Mane 6 save RD are unpleasant for not noticing Twilight's and RD's growing unhappiness with their behaviors? Or noticing but not caring?
Of course you don't. You made that very clear.
It's only a bad thing when Twilight's doing it, m'kay?
Of course you don't. You made that very clear.
It's only a bad thing when Twilight's doing it, m'kay?
As debate tactics go, trying to make someone feel ashamed or stupid for the deeply entrenched personal position they're arguing from isn't going to have the effect y'all think it's going to have.
This argument's going to a bad place I've seen before, merits aside, and it might be time to cool off.
Oh, and comments!Discord is just AWK doing their lightly annoying RP/quiz thing they've been doing for years, just under a different name.
THANK YOU so much Newbie. Waiting for the comic to update I decided to read what was new in the comment section, and this entire part of the thread felt a bit uncomfortable, regardless of my position for or against the arguments of any of its participants.
As someone who has done very little original-story GMing (I usually just run a module for our group, or do one-shot Random Encounter Challenges), I find that it's really easy to sympathize with pretty much everyone in this comic, but at the MOMENT, mostly Twilight. Simply because, from my perspective, her frustration is perfectly reasonable. Also, when even the DM is facilitating the heroes making concrete progress, it's clear that Twilight isn't the only one who believes the game is getting bogged down. While I love RP (even though I'm not very good at it), it's important to make sure that EVERYONE is being engaged, or at least entertained. And Twilight clearly isn't. It's just now finally gotten to the point where she gets to DO something, ANYTHING, or even know what happened to her friends in the past few hours--and all but one of her friends are constantly undermining her every attempt to actually do what she enjoys or wants to do. Her frustration is completely understandable. Is she snapping a bit more than she probably should? Yes. I mean, even in our group, who have all known each other 8+ years, we'd probably take an OOC moment to clear the air about our issues and frustrations, rather than the reaction displayed here. BUT, that said, the entire situation seems to be making a point to avoid that as an option. Under which circumstances venting some frustration this way is more understandable. At least, to me it is.
Also, am I the only one who wanted Twilight to yell "EVERYPONY GETS A NECKLACE!" near the end there?
Also, am I the only one who wanted Twilight to yell "EVERYPONY GETS A NECKLACE!" near the end there?
Maybe there's a good job being done in moderating, but I think even the worse and longest-winded discussions here are still miles away in politeness (even if any of us gets smarmy or a bit passive-aggressive from time to time) than many other comment threads I've read.
That said, it's funny how an arc relying heavily on the effects of disagreement, miscommunication and blurred lines between fiction and reality has been bleeding its theme into the tone of the comment section, lol.
That said, it's funny how an arc relying heavily on the effects of disagreement, miscommunication and blurred lines between fiction and reality has been bleeding its theme into the tone of the comment section, lol.
I'm the Element of Shut Up and Do as I Say. It's also called the Element of Parenting.