Page 1718 - Selection Rejection

19th Jul 2022, 6:00 AM in What About Discord?
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Selection Rejection
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Newbiespud 19th Jul 2022, 6:00 AM edit delete
Newbiespud
A lot of campaign progression is about making connections and leveraging them to get what you want. But when combined with the usual power fantasy aspect, eventually the campaign hits this point where you call for the heavy hitters and look around the silent room only to realize, "Oh. We're the heavy hitters now."

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27 Comments:

Toric 19th Jul 2022, 6:05 AM edit delete reply
I mean, solo, Celestia probably wins against any of the Mane 6 in system. But a party of 6 PCs, even if they were less than half her level, are a lot harder to deal with in a sustained fight. Especially when powered up by the plot
King Marth 19th Jul 2022, 8:14 AM edit delete reply
Action economy is brutal. There's a point where the singular side is so far beyond that nothing the group does will matter, but individual actions carry a lot of weight in tabletop.
The Old One 19th Jul 2022, 10:46 AM edit delete reply
I just wrapped up a campaign where I had 4 11th lvl PCs vs a 19th level kinda-lich, and I still had to give this guy extra HP to keep him from getting blasted to quickly.
Digo 19th Jul 2022, 6:41 AM edit delete reply
Dang, that Word effect hits hard at all the wrong moments. :O
ArmoredMerchant 19th Jul 2022, 6:57 AM edit delete reply
I'm genuinely looking forward to seeing how the party reacts to this news! Levels intermixed with plot can have quite an effect!

(Oh my gosh, I can't believe I get to say this...)
Storytime!
When was your own strength a major turning point in your campaign?
Digo 20th Jul 2022, 8:21 AM edit delete reply
For the current D&D 3.5 game I'm in, I'd say when my wizard hit 5th level. Haste and summon Monster 3 really made the party effective at taking out our opponents.
zimmerwald1915 19th Jul 2022, 7:36 AM edit delete reply
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0881.html
NobleCuriosity 20th Jul 2022, 1:51 PM edit delete reply
I’m guessing this is in response to the “Oh. We’re the heavy hitters now bit?”

(Warning to others: big spoilers for Oots book 5&6.)
Winged Cat 19th Jul 2022, 9:18 AM edit delete reply
Winged Cat
And now it becomes canon that Celestia was and still is a Cleric.
Ransom4 19th Jul 2022, 10:55 AM edit delete reply
Ransom4
Actually a cool detail I hadn't thought about.
Truthkeeper 19th Jul 2022, 3:31 PM edit delete reply
Fairly certain this has been mentioned once before, but hell if I can remember when.
TyrantViewer 19th Jul 2022, 9:49 PM edit delete reply
"PRAISE THE SUN"

Though it is amusing that the closest thing to a local sun godess is a cleric. Makes me think about GATE's appostles who were basically embryonic gods. Imagine a setting where powerful enough clerics ascend to godhood.
Klimpaloon 19th Jul 2022, 11:28 AM edit delete reply
Clearly the solution here is not to consolidate all the alicorn powers into one pony, but to disperse it between as many ponies as possible.
Matiekay_13 19th Jul 2022, 12:18 PM edit delete reply
Matiekay_13
With the option to send it on to someone else if Tirek catches you. Magic keepaway FTW!
rem 19th Jul 2022, 11:58 AM edit delete reply
and Fluttershy comes in with the vote of confidence...
Philadelphus 19th Jul 2022, 11:26 PM edit delete reply
Philadelphus
That line got a laugh out of me.
Ponon 19th Jul 2022, 1:35 PM edit delete reply
Ooh, I get it. Instead of DBZ Super-Twilight, she'll spread it out among the party, off the same logic that Celestia just used? So, that would be the rainbow power upgrade an episode early, because the Mane Six haven't been picking up the shiny plot coupons that would let them get it the normal way.

Foreshadowing = Solid. I guess right?
StrandedGeek 19th Jul 2022, 2:09 PM edit delete reply
StrandedGeek
See if they actually had admit in the show that Celestia wasn't as uber powerful as she used to be, that would be nice to actually acknowledge why she & the others aren't the ones who save the day.
Anvildude 19th Jul 2022, 5:18 PM edit delete reply
What's funny is that I think the entire reason they didn't is that she's NEVER been that powerful. Like, the fans turned her into an all-powerful God-Queen based on how the other ponies treat her, her immortality, and what to US is an incredible magical feat of MOVING A STAR, but in-universe the sun-moving thing isn't actually all that impressive. It's something that can be done by a group of decently-powerful unicorns working together if necessary, and so is more akin to, say, lifting a one-ton girder. Impressive that a single person can do it by themself, but not something that's going to change the world.
StrandedGeek 19th Jul 2022, 7:46 PM edit delete reply
StrandedGeek
Yeah...yeah.
Ransom4 20th Jul 2022, 7:18 AM edit delete reply
Ransom4
Well, I'd argue it's sort of implied given her ability to wield all six elements herself, being an alicorn, and ruling as Equestria's protector even without Luna for 1,000 years. I mean, with all the threats that popped up in the short time of the series surely there's be a few at similar levels over the course of a millenium and somebody had to deal with them right? She also did more in other pony media but that just tends to pop open a 'That isn't canon!' arguments (though if I stubbornly consider The Journal of the Two Sisters book as canon even in defiance of the later seasons).
Ransom4 20th Jul 2022, 7:21 AM edit delete reply
Ransom4
I too would have been fine with the idea that Celestia (and Luna) have been slowly losing their powers. Honestly my frustration with the show's treatment of her was less that what they did with her as much as how little they did.
Roguim 19th Jul 2022, 3:00 PM edit delete reply
So by " strict to the principle and work together" means she will disperse the power among the others? what can explain here the 'rainbow upgrade" in the series
And indeed when the party see that the they ate the big ones now could be very worrying (by both the players and the DM...)
Arcict 19th Jul 2022, 4:49 PM edit delete reply
I once created a flow chart of why the in-universe strategy was the best, including the various options they had of "whom to give the power to"... spoiler alert, every single option turned out worse, either due to lack of recent experience, a history of failure in combat situations, or just being completely overwhelmed, in the case of the "wait for the guards to do their stinking job" option.
Swift Justice 20th Jul 2022, 5:49 PM edit delete reply
Yeah, when it comes down to it, the option is surprisingly smart for being straightforward- he's a power-trainer who grows stronger by making others weaker, and the Alicorns are absolutely on his list to target whenever the opportunity presents itself. Investing all their power in a brilliant magical prodigy, who the enemy does NOT know about, both denies him those opportunities and makes someone who has the best chance at taking him out right away.
Ransom4 20th Jul 2022, 7:24 AM edit delete reply
Ransom4
Actually sort of love the characterization of Celestia and Luna as former "player characters" and adventurers, especially sense that lines up with their characterization in The Journal of the Two Sisters.
A Hat With A Smaller Hat 21st Jul 2022, 6:41 PM edit delete reply
Yeah, it feels like the Princesses really became the Worf of MLP. Like if you want an easy way for the villain to seem super powerful, just have them defeat Celestia or Luna and it's easy tension setting.

Similar to Worf, however, in a contradictory way just makes Celestia look super weak, making it not actually that much of a challenge to defeat her.