Page 1751 - Un-earthed

4th Oct 2022, 6:00 AM in What About Discord?
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Un-earthed
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Newbiespud 4th Oct 2022, 6:00 AM edit delete
Newbiespud
So many Machiavellian schemes fail because of people doing random arbitrary things just because they feel like it. Nowhere else do you see that happen more clearly than in tabletop roleplaying.

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20 Comments:

rmsgrey 4th Oct 2022, 7:26 AM edit delete reply
Because it's one of my pet pieces of pedantry: technically, a "point of order" is purely procedural - drawing attention to a rules transgression, or potential transgression. One reason it's widely used to introduce information outside of a formal parliamentary (or other deliberative) setting is that there doesn't seem to be a correct equivalent phrase for "I want to interject a relevant fact here" - the motion previously known as "point of information" is now less misleadingly known as a "request for information" and is used to request facts, not to provide them (except as necessary to provide context to the actual question). Also, a point of order should be asking the GM for a ruling, not being raised by the GM.

None of which is to say that the GM wouldn't use the phrase in this context - I doubt anyone but Twilight would actually know or care about this particular piece of trivia. I just find it interesting and wanted to share.
Pablo360 4th Oct 2022, 7:43 AM edit delete reply
That is an absurd nit to pick. And I say this as an experienced nitpicker. "People are using formal terms informally!" yeah that's how informal speech works
Borg 4th Oct 2022, 8:03 AM edit delete reply
At least it's not the argument that "begging the question" should inexplicably due to a Latin mistranslation from centuries ago mean "assuming the antecedent."
Prairie Son 4th Oct 2022, 8:22 AM edit delete reply
Oddly, I do use "point of information" instead, and do it often enough that others do as well on occasion.
Tycho 4th Oct 2022, 8:42 AM edit delete reply
I definitely read that as bringing up an incidental point of information, then confirming that said information would be understood before passing the incidental point. Consider an alternative exchange:
DM- Just one small point of order: Discord senses that the Plunderseeds and their vines have all been vaporized.
Discord- The which what now?
DM- The Plunderseeds Contingency.
Discord- Oh yeah! As "sequel hooks" go to bring a villain back for Round 2, I still quite like it. Slowly creeping up on the heroes until it's almost too late... Now what's the news again?
DM- Discord senses that the Plunderseeds and their vines have all been vaporized.
Discord- WHAT?! HOW? How did they find them??

All the same info and roughly in the same order. But without cluing in Discord about what the relevant context is, DM risks Discord not being able to link the news to the importance and the exchange becomes awkward. Might have been better starting with the question, but people frequently misorder logical statements especially in causal speech.
Newbiespud 4th Oct 2022, 9:37 AM edit delete reply
Newbiespud
It's been a long time since a comment thread left me feeling exhausted. I'm impressed.
you know that guy 4th Oct 2022, 8:08 PM edit delete reply
>people frequently misorder logical statements especially in causal speech.

Well yes, since it's not possible to misorder logical statements in acausal speech.
Digo 5th Oct 2022, 4:38 AM edit delete reply
That's the thing about living languages; the meanings of words and phrases evolves into other things.
Jennifer 4th Oct 2022, 8:19 AM edit delete reply
Yeah, that's why I love Shane the Shy, the BBEG who is only so because he's a rich idiot with no day job. He just "helps" other villains with their own schemes, then skips out before the heroes can catch him. I'd love to use him in my campaign.
Fan of Most Everything 4th Oct 2022, 8:31 AM edit delete reply
Interesting. I'd been wondering whether returning the Elements to the Tree would've impacted Discord's slow petrification—I could honestly see it accelerating, slowing, or stopping entirely depending on how the DM interprets things—but a standing harmonious curse not being impacted after getting bestowed also works.

And yeah, the thing about complicated, wheels-within-wheels schemes is that they have countless potential points of failure. Still, that's why you have lots of them. A poor Plan B, but a promising Plan Q.
LupisLight 4th Oct 2022, 10:58 AM edit delete reply
Does DiscorDM know about the Tree of Harmony being where he planted the vines? Will he be able to surmise that the girls no longer have possession of the elements because of this?
Wulfraed 5th Oct 2022, 9:37 AM edit delete reply
He seems to have spread the seeds fairly widely, so may not know /where/ the Mane 6 encountered them, nor if they somehow neutralized them without meeting the Tree.
Classic Steve 4th Oct 2022, 2:52 PM edit delete reply
That's the thing that gets me about a lot of seemingly brilliant schemes: After all the anticipation of willful actions on the enemy's part, they can fail simply by the enemy happening to choose a different path without knowing what to expect.
Winged Cat 4th Oct 2022, 2:53 PM edit delete reply
Winged Cat
This is why successful grand schemes rely on trends and influences that lead toward, and can be taken advantage of to cause, end results rather than highly complex, highly fragile setups with lots of potential failure modes. More "blob growing like a force of nature", less "overwhelming mass of delicate clockwork".
Roguim 4th Oct 2022, 3:02 PM edit delete reply
As an older DM Discord should also have made a "blind luck from players" contingency plan
Blind Luck 4th Oct 2022, 4:23 PM edit delete reply
So... Is common that players by Blind Luck somehow spoil the surprise of a future round or just make it unusable?
Freelance 5th Oct 2022, 2:06 AM edit delete reply
There's a trope for that, too:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpannerInTheWorks
Wolfier 5th Oct 2022, 8:49 AM edit delete reply
I've got to ask the nagging question: why did discord plant seeds that take 1000 years to grow that can be wiped in a night?

The fact no one found the thorns until today is a mystery in of itself.

Actually now that I think about it, why do so many apocalypses of 1000 years in the making all land right around the same period.
Prairie Son 5th Oct 2022, 2:05 PM edit delete reply
Obviously, Dash's Sonic Rainboom habit is breaking the seals holding things at bay.
Harmony or Celestia? 8th Oct 2022, 4:52 AM edit delete reply
The Elements of Harmony are cursed, after Twilight tried to take them out, everything happened at once... That or Celestia planned everything to make Twilight a princess and get out of the job